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-   -   Larry Brown: Legend or Luckbox? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=407722)

pokerdirty 12-30-2005 12:32 PM

Larry Brown: Legend or Luckbox?
 
As some of you know, I have confessed to not being an NBA fan. I don't watch it, and don't really care to, I used to growing up, but not anymore. But being in NYC, I do read the papers, and see what's going on, especially on the Back Page.

I'm interested in what this forum thinks of Mr. Brown. He has seemingly helped turn around many teams when he came in, but didn't win a championship until a couple of years ago, when he took over a talented Pistons team.

With Brown out of Detroit, and Flip Saunders in, the Pistons seem to be doing even better than when Brown was there. Is this because Flip > Brown, or some other reason?

Brown is now in New York, coaching the pitiful Knicks, who seem to be worse this year than ever before.

I think Larry Brown is an interesting topic, and I believe this will spark some interesting discussion. I'm just looking for some thoughts from people who know more than me.

Thanks,

P. Dirty

MEbenhoe 12-30-2005 12:37 PM

Re: Larry Brown: Legend or Luckbox?
 
LUCKBOX!!!!!!!

Hornacek 12-30-2005 12:51 PM

Re: Larry Brown: Legend or Luckbox?
 
Legend, but his stubbornness in recent years is starting to kill his reputation, ESPECIALLY his intransigent refusal to play rookies, whilst favoring veterans.

First, immediately after his hiring, he stated he was brought in to develop Darko Milicic. Instead, he benched him, gave him DNP-CD nearly every game, and killed his confidence. Maybe Darko was a little overhyped at first, but still, I refuse to believe EVERYONE was completely wrong with him. I think its a mixture of shattered 18-yo confidence and a new league and players.

Second came his horrible Olympic showing, when he stubbornly started Starbury game after horrific game, meanwhile allowing Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Amare Stoudemire rotted away on the bench. A front line of Duncan and Amare would have been unstoppable in Olympic play.

Third was his slow slow slow tempo to the Pistons. It nearly worked again last year, but this year has shown that it was nearly clamping the offense down. This may have worked 10 years ago with the Pacers, but the L has changed since then.

Finally, this year's Knicks. Just a mess.

He better fix it up soon, or his legacy is going to be VERY tarnished.

IndieMatty 12-30-2005 01:44 PM

Re: Larry Brown: Legend or Luckbox?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Legend, but his stubbornness in recent years is starting to kill his reputation, ESPECIALLY his intransigent refusal to play rookies, whilst favoring veterans.

First, immediately after his hiring, he stated he was brought in to develop Darko Milicic. Instead, he benched him, gave him DNP-CD nearly every game, and killed his confidence. Maybe Darko was a little overhyped at first, but still, I refuse to believe EVERYONE was completely wrong with him. I think its a mixture of shattered 18-yo confidence and a new league and players.

Second came his horrible Olympic showing, when he stubbornly started Starbury game after horrific game, meanwhile allowing Dwyane Wade, LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, and Amare Stoudemire rotted away on the bench. A front line of Duncan and Amare would have been unstoppable in Olympic play.

Third was his slow slow slow tempo to the Pistons. It nearly worked again last year, but this year has shown that it was nearly clamping the offense down. This may have worked 10 years ago with the Pacers, but the L has changed since then.

Finally, this year's Knicks. Just a mess.

He better fix it up soon, or his legacy is going to be VERY tarnished.

[/ QUOTE ]

he's doing such a [censored] awful job,.

Jack of Arcades 12-30-2005 01:47 PM

Re: Larry Brown: Legend or Luckbox?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Third was his slow slow slow tempo to the Pistons. It nearly worked again last year, but this year has shown that it was nearly clamping the offense down. This may have worked 10 years ago with the Pacers, but the L has changed since then.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Pistons are still one of the slowest offensive teams in the league.

Josh W 12-30-2005 02:02 PM

Re: Larry Brown: Legend or Luckbox?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Third was his slow slow slow tempo to the Pistons. It nearly worked again last year, but this year has shown that it was nearly clamping the offense down. This may have worked 10 years ago with the Pacers, but the L has changed since then.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Pistons are still one of the slowest offensive teams in the league.

[/ QUOTE ]

This year, they are 6th in the league in scoring.

Last year, they were 24th.

Two years ago, they were 24th.

TheNoodleMan 12-30-2005 02:10 PM

Re: Larry Brown: Legend or Luckbox?
 
He has improved every team he has coached. He even took the Clippers to the playoffs.
Who cares about what the Knicks look like now, this time next year he'll have them competitive, he always does.

ThaSaltCracka 12-30-2005 02:13 PM

Re: Larry Brown: Legend or Luckbox?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Third was his slow slow slow tempo to the Pistons. It nearly worked again last year, but this year has shown that it was nearly clamping the offense down. This may have worked 10 years ago with the Pacers, but the L has changed since then.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Pistons are still one of the slowest offensive teams in the league.

[/ QUOTE ]How do you figure? 6th in the league in PPG, the only teams that score more than them are full of shooters and gunners. Also, watching them this year is almost night and day compared to last year. Flip has opened up their offense emmensely. I even heard Chauncey say that they rarely run any half courts sets now.

Jack of Arcades 12-30-2005 02:17 PM

Re: Larry Brown: Legend or Luckbox?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Third was his slow slow slow tempo to the Pistons. It nearly worked again last year, but this year has shown that it was nearly clamping the offense down. This may have worked 10 years ago with the Pacers, but the L has changed since then.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Pistons are still one of the slowest offensive teams in the league.

[/ QUOTE ]

This year, they are 6th in the league in scoring.

Last year, they were 24th.

Two years ago, they were 24th.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say they were a BAD offensive team, just a SLOW one.

Aces McGee 12-30-2005 02:20 PM

Re: Larry Brown: Legend or Luckbox?
 
Just a general comment here -- not a direct response to Josh W, but it fits here as well as anywhere. Yes, the Pistons are better offensively, by a significant margin. But winning basketball -- and in particular, winning championships -- isn't just about scoring points. Larry Brown instilled a selfless, team-first attitude into a group of players (including RASHEED WALLACE, for crying out loud), and that attitude carries over today into the way the Pistons play defense and share the ball.

Perhaps Brown misjudged them offensively, and this is not to take anything away from Flip Saunders -- but it's wrong to suggest that Flip is a better coach than Larry because the Pistons are better this year than the last two years. Larry Brown (and Joe Dumars and probably others within the organization) laid the foundation for this team to play the way it is currently playing.

The guy has won a ton of games, and unlike guys like Phil Jackson and Red Auerbach, he hasn't always had the league's best player (or two best players) on his teams (I do separate Red from Phil because of the former's role in personnel decisions).

As for his current performance with the Knicks, I haven't been paying too much attention to them this year, but what do you want from a guy who has Isiah Thomas building the team for him?

-McGee


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