Interesting 10/25 hand against a solid player.
 

10/25 at foxwoods with duck and Jon (the lawyer from foxwoods very nice guy, very solid) sitting directly to my left. Everyone else sucks though. Jon is in the SB and has me covered, I'm in the CO with T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Someone opens for 75 early, a bunch of calls and I call.

Flop T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

PFR checks, weird guy bets 100, bad player calls 100, I make it 700 (which is near potsized), Jon cold calls out of the SB after checking (WTF?) everyone folds.

Turn 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Jon leads for 800, I think for a few and call.

River 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Jon bets $1000, I think for a few seconds and shove for 3.6 more on top.

Thoughts?

Re: Interesting 10/25 hand against a solid player.
 

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Thoughts?

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With two flush draws out there on the turn and you calling, he is getting odds to call you down on the river, especially if he reads you for any weakness. Dangerous move. Hope you got away with it.

Re: Interesting 10/25 hand against a solid player.
 

My thoughts are he either flopped a set or 2 pair according to that line.

Re: Interesting 10/25 hand against a solid player.
 

This seems like a "let's throw a bunch of money out there and hope he folds a better hand" sort of move. But as you said, John is a good and thinking player and may get stubburn with the better hand. Before John lays down his hand he's gonna have to put you on a hand that beats him and i don't think he's gonna put you on a set or a flush as these both seem unlikely given the play of the hand.

I don't see john having a one pair hand here either and i don't see him folding anything bigger than that. He knows he's getting 2.5/1. He has a flush draw, two pair (34s to be exact), or a set. I don't really like your raise in any one of these circumstances. The only way i see John laying down a bigger hand is if he believes you are extremely tight. I think a diamond flush draw from John is a strong possibility here so I don't think a call would be bad given the nice price the pot is laying you.

Re: Interesting 10/25 hand against a solid player.
 

Jon is a VERY tight player who is not afraid to make tough calls and he can be tricky at times. So while he is not a typical nit, cold-calling a raise out of position with anything but a set or two pair here is still almost impossible for me to imagine.
The one scenario in which I think this river move makes sense is if John decided to play JJ this way, which while not inconceivable is still very improbable.

Also, don't think that his less than pot-sized bets are signs of weakness-he makes these sized bets with strong hands all the time. I don't think he would call with a draw on that flop either. If you did somehow manage to get John to fold you got very lucky, and from playing with him on numerous occasions I can tell you that running bluffs into him when he's been giving action is not a +EV decision.

Re: Interesting 10/25 hand against a solid player.
 

yeah, everyonce in a while I think, "Hey shove, there is no way he can call this..." Definitely not the best strategy. I didn't really know what to think, his turn bet really confused me.

Re: Interesting 10/25 hand against a solid player.
 

I just don't understand what you could be representing here.. What could you raise so much on the flop with that you his runner runner clubs? What could you hit on the river that would make you push? a set of 5s? an inside straight? The ONLY hand he can put you on is 67 of diamonds, and that just seems quite unlikely. He's probably got a set of something, and like it has been said, I don't see how he can fold unless he's sure you would NEVER bluff the river... I don't mind calling as much as I do raising, there is just no hand that he can check call the flop with and lead the turn that you could have beaten.. and he can't call you with a worse hand, except MAYBE 99, and even then he'd have to have some sort of extreme read, and it sounds like he's much too tight to play that hand this way.

Re: Interesting 10/25 hand against a solid player.
 

I'm not sure, but i certainly would not characterize John as a "VERY tight player"....Would you? I think he's very capable of showing up with 34s on this river although i think a flush draw and a set here are both more likely.....

Re: Interesting 10/25 hand against a solid player.
 

Cool hand.

I think his call on the flop can't be a made hand if he's really solid - solid guys OOP are 3 betting sets against raisers like you with boards like that.

I think he has big diamonds, and also thinks you're FOS. That turn bet really looks like he's setting his own price, not charging you. I just call on the end - but I'm 3000 miles away, and if I was looking at him I would probably do something else.

Someone also mentioned JJ - that would be weird, but possible too, I guess.

Re: Interesting 10/25 hand against a solid player.
 

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i think a flush draw likely.....

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u keep saying this, but i cant believe u...