small overpair $109
 

i don't remember reads.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) converter

MP1 (t1205)
MP2 (t3678)
MP3 (t2665)
CO (t1280)
Button (t3600)
Hero (t4200)
BB (t3320)
UTG (t3450)
UTG+1 (t1100)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls t225, BB calls t150.

Flop: (t900) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t275</font>, hero?

comments on the initial flop check welcome also.

Re: small overpair $109
 

These are always tricky because if you lead out you'll often get raised by Ax hands you're ahead of. And it's tough to commit SO many chips with just a little overpair. But I think if you check you have to do so with some plan in mind. Check-raise, check-call lead the turn, etc.

Obviously the big question here is what does his little 1/4 pot bet mean? Big pair or weak continuation bet? Against two opponents I'd think an overpair (even AA) would bet more than 1/4 the pot given there's already 3 to a straight on the board. So I think he's a little weak. But I'm still hesitant to check-raise here given it would pretty much pot commit me.

I think I'd call with the intention of leading out on any non-threatening (meaning A/K maybe Q) turn card. Even if he has a bigger overpair you've got some great semi-bluff cards in a 3, 6, or 8 and obviously a 9 gives you most likely the best hand. So you might even get him to fold a better hand if the right card comes.

Re: small overpair $109
 

If you're going to check the flop, I don't think you can fold here (I doubt you were considering it, but thought I should be clear.).

For the rest of the hand...interesting. Possible lines, and what I think of them.

Check-raise here. I like this - it represents a donkey with a set, which might be a good thing as your hand is good but hardly invulnerable. If he pushes, I think you can fold. If he calls, lead any non-broadway turn, and again fold to a push. Being OOP sucks.

Call and lead any non-broadway turn. This helps keep the pot small, but there are a lot of turn cards that will either kill your action or your hand.

In all, I think I go with the CR here.

Re: small overpair $109
 

Options:

Checkraise here, but if he calls, you really haven't gained that much info. If he's good, he may call w/ air to see if you checkraised w/ air. You're also investing a lot into a hand when you don't know exactly if you're ahead. And are you going to lead the turn, I mean, that's investing a lot. If he's drawing, he may call, will you bet the river??

Checkcalling, then leading the turn is ok. Still same problems as mentioned about checkraising.

Checkcalling, checking turn. I may just call down. If he bets weakly again, I may checkraise, since a turn checkraise is less likely to be air on your part. I may checkcall if villain bets again. If villain checks, I probably check river.

Yes, ultra-passive, i know. But I really just want to keep the pot small.

As an aside, I probably would've led the flop for 500-700, he's going to have a hard time raising that w/ air. I want to define my hand now, and relatively cheaply, since I'm OOP, and I'm not sure if I'm ahead.

I know you want to reciprocate and respond to my 88 post. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: small overpair $109
 

mikeuhJ,

Your don't get it.

[ QUOTE ]
Checkraise here, but if he calls, you really haven't gained that much info. If he's good, he may call w/ air to see if you checkraised w/ air. You're also investing a lot into a hand when you don't know exactly if you're ahead. And are you going to lead the turn, I mean, that's investing a lot. If he's drawing, he may call, will you bet the river??

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero has little over 4k to start the hand if he CR into a 1100 pot on the flop he will not be folding. Not sure what type of info you are trying to gain, but at that point its irrelevant because if you CR you wouldnt possibly consider a fold.

[ QUOTE ]
Checkcalling, then leading the turn is ok. Still same problems as mentioned about checkraising.

[/ QUOTE ]

huh?

[ QUOTE ]
Checkcalling, checking turn. I may just call down. If he bets weakly again, I may checkraise, since a turn checkraise is less likely to be air on your part. I may checkcall if villain bets again. If villain checks, I probably check river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really bad. If he bets weakly you CR because its unlikely your bluffing??? Great, so now what exactly is he supposed to call you down with? Where does the value in your turn CR come from?

[ QUOTE ]
As an aside, I probably would've led the flop for 500-700, he's going to have a hard time raising that w/ air. I want to define my hand now, and relatively cheaply, since I'm OOP, and I'm not sure if I'm ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

finally decent thinking
-jason

Re: small overpair $109
 

Lol, I'm truly humbled, strassa. Mind helping me w/ my 88 hand?

Alright, If I missed the flop, I checkraise that flop bet a good percentage of the time, because usually that 1/3 pot bet online represents a weak steal attempt. If my opponent plays along, I'm done.

I have a decent hand, but I don't want to build a giant pot w/ it. This is why I don't like checkraising.

Checkraising is ok. Naturally, if you checkraise, you're committed to the hand.

If you checkcall, lead turn, and villain calls, are you going to lead river or check river? Leading river costs more $ and checking river may leave yourself open to getting bluffed.

This is why I would probably checkcall, check turn.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Checkcalling, checking turn. I may just call down. If he bets weakly again, I may checkraise, since a turn checkraise is less likely to be air on your part. I may checkcall if villain bets again. If villain checks, I probably check river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is really bad. If he bets weakly you CR because its unlikely your bluffing??? Great, so now what exactly is he supposed to call you down with? Where does the value in your turn CR come from?

[/ QUOTE ]

Where does the value in a flop CR come from? The answer to this question is the answer to your question.

Given a check on the flop. I would want to checkcall the flop. Checkraise or checkcall a bet. If I checkraise, again, I'm committed, and I will lead the river. If I checkcall, then i'm checking river. If my opponent checks turn, I will most likely check river and checkcall a reasonable bet.

Ultra passive. I KNOW. What's your line, strassa?

Re: small overpair $109
 

my original plan was to c/r a-i if he bet more like 700, but i thought the risk/reward wasn't there with the small bet. also, if he bets 700, he's getting about 1.9:1 and might talk himself into a bad call with AK. finally, i might shut out TT/JJ from the BB. (thoughts?)

after the little cbet, my plan was to call the flop and lead any non-A, non-6 turn and fold to a raise.

with the bb push, i'm getting 1.63:1, or need to win 38%.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) converter

MP1 (t1205)
MP2 (t3678)
MP3 (t2665)
CO (t1280)
Button (t3600)
Hero (t4200)
BB (t3320)
UTG (t3450)
UTG+1 (t1100)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls t225, BB calls t150.

Flop: (t900) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t275</font>, Hero calls t275, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t3020 (All-In)</font>, MP2 folds, hero?

Re: small overpair $109
 

i think you see 67, 56, 46, etc. semi-bluffs enough here to make this a call ....why would he push this hard w/2-pair/set/straight?

Re: small overpair $109
 

[ QUOTE ]
As an aside, I probably would've led the flop for 500-700, he's going to have a hard time raising that w/ air. I want to define my hand now, and relatively cheaply, since I'm OOP, and I'm not sure if I'm ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

finally decent thinking
-jason

[/ QUOTE ]
Jason,

If you lead out and he raises, what does that tell you? Does that really define your hand? Is he that less likely to be holding Ax that you can fold? If you were him and had a blind lead out would you not raise with a wide range of hands?

L

Re: small overpair $109
 

[ QUOTE ]
my original plan was to c/r a-i if he bet more like 700, but i thought the risk/reward wasn't there with the small bet. also, if he bets 700, he's getting about 1.9:1 and might talk himself into a bad call with AK. finally, i might shut out TT/JJ from the BB. (thoughts?)

after the little cbet, my plan was to call the flop and lead any non-A, non-6 turn and fold to a raise.

with the bb push, i'm getting 1.63:1, or need to win 38%.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) converter

MP1 (t1205)
MP2 (t3678)
MP3 (t2665)
CO (t1280)
Button (t3600)
Hero (t4200)
BB (t3320)
UTG (t3450)
UTG+1 (t1100)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls t225, BB calls t150.

Flop: (t900) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets t275</font>, Hero calls t275, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t3020 (All-In)</font>, MP2 folds, hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oooh, goodie, I'd forgotten about the BB.

Lessee, what might he have?
-Top pair, perhaps with a draw of some sort?
-Overpair to your overpair? (weakly played tens?)
-Pockets and a draw? (66 is about the only one that makes sense)
-Air that thinks, "Ah, they're both on overs!".
-Made str8?
-Set?

I think that (with the exception of the made str8) the odds in these are pretty evenly distributed, but someone else can fire up pokerstove.

With the odds, I think you're ahead enough of the time to call this. But I'm an optimist. (I hope you called. Today sucks, and I think "I folded" would send me to the liquor cabinet much too early for my own good.)