s
 

The villain on my direct right is mysteriously unknown. His [censored] stats won't show up and I haven't seen him play a hand. The guy on his right has been involved in about a dozen hands, seen the flop on about 7 of them, and has yet to bet or raise.

I think all streets post flop are pretty questionable. I suppose my line was a Wa/WB line trying to keep the donk around to add some equity. Versus an unknown, I'm kind of thinking I should have folded that river.

Party Poker 3.00/6.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(8 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP1 checks, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9.00 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds, MP1 calls.

Turn: (6.00 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls, MP1 folds.

River: (8.00 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.00 BB.

Re: s
 

hey buck

looks good.

Re: s
 

you definitely cant fold the river, he could do this with any PP, 5x, maybe even a flush draw with a 9 or an 8.

i think this is pretty perfect.

Re: s
 

I raise this flop. Smaller pairs are calling you down, and if they have an A you can get away from it without putting in 2BB on the bigger streets. Also, you'd never play an A like this if you had one, so you're just making yourself more readable by calling down here.

When there is a flush draw on the flop the hand is not a WA/WB situation. You can't fold the river against an unknown.

Re: s
 

I had a hand very similar to this tonight. I raised the flop, but forgot to heed the warning when I was reraised. So, I think you've got to raise this flop, but be prepared to lay it down if you face any further aggression - unlike the way I actually played mine [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] The way you played it, I think the river call was correct.

Re: s
 

[ QUOTE ]
I raise this flop. Smaller pairs are calling you down.

[/ QUOTE ]

The accuracy of the second statement would appear to be the real point of contention here.

fwiw i disagree

Re: s
 

shant

do you do this as your default against unknowns? what if they turn out to be a post-flop flush draw maniac or goes crazy with low pocket pairs on paired flops? we only have one overcard to worry about here so i dont really feel our hand is vulnerable. even with hearts we can hit a fat Q of hearts and destroy this guy. if villain checks on the turn or river ill be happy to fire but until then i dont mind being a calling station. am i missing something here that is keeping me from playing 4k/8k with doyle?

Re: s
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I raise this flop. Smaller pairs are calling you down.

[/ QUOTE ]

The accuracy of the second statement would appear to be the real point of contention here.

fwiw i disagree

[/ QUOTE ]
True, sometimes a 5x hand won't look you up, but you would be surprised how much 77 or 99 takes the hand to showdown, especially because I raise these flops without an Ace a lot.

Re: s
 

I think raising the flop for value is almost certainly wrong. My game would be pretty damn aggro if my standard read for an unknown is that they'll call down here with a hand like 66; I'm not buying it.

Re: s
 

[ QUOTE ]
shant

do you do this as your default against unknowns? what if they turn out to be a post-flop flush draw maniac or goes crazy with low pocket pairs on paired flops? we only have one overcard to worry about here so i dont really feel our hand is vulnerable. even with hearts we can hit a fat Q of hearts and destroy this guy. if villain checks on the turn or river ill be happy to fire but until then i dont mind being a calling station. am i missing something here that is keeping me from playing 4k/8k with doyle?

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand that the prospect of an unknown going nutso with a flush draw or a 5x hand is a possibility, but if he is truly that aggressive than he earned this pot from me and I will find better spots against him later.

I just think the missed value, protection, deception, and unreadability is more important. Keep in mind I play a higher limit but I like responding to hands in all forums. You can decide for yourself if the pros of raising that I'm pushing are valuable at this limit.