Leadership
 

I've noticed a lot of racial comments in the forum, and it prompted me to do a search. Blacks have in many ways segregated themselves by supporting and endorsing racial "leaders". One of the problems (much like in the Islamic community) is that I haven't heard their leaders step forward with an outright condemnation of the behavior in New Orleans. That would help a lot.

I went to Jesse Jacksons site and couldn't find any fundraising for New Orleans victims (or even a mention of). The rest of the site is all about fundraising (for Jesse).

Re: Leadership
 

Why should Jesse Jackson do this? why should "condemnation of the behavior in New Orleans" be a racial issue?

Re: Leadership
 

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I've noticed a lot of racial comments in the forum, and it prompted me to do a search. Blacks have in many ways segregated themselves by supporting and endorsing racial "leaders". One of the problems (much like in the Islamic community) is that I haven't heard their leaders step forward with an outright condemnation of the behavior in New Orleans. That would help a lot.

I went to Jesse Jacksons site and couldn't find any fundraising for New Orleans victims (or even a mention of). The rest of the site is all about fundraising (for Jesse).

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http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1125623640148840.xml&storylist=louisiana

I assume you're white, Sheetwise. Many people accuse rich, white Americans of standing idly by when the world has problems. One of the problems (of the rich white community) is that I haven't seen alot of them stop what they're doing in their everyday lives, hop on a plane, and get a little dirty helping their countrymen when they need it most. That would help alot.

Will you be leaving the safe confines of the space behind your computer and join Jesse Jackson in New Orleans, Sheetwise?

Be sure to let us know how it goes when you get there.

Re: Leadership
 

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Why should "condemnation of the behavior in New Orleans" by a racial issue?

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Because if the leadership of the black community is aware that prejudices and racism exist, and they believe that the stereotypes are unfounded (as I do), then they should recognize that the 24/7 streaming video is a PR problem - and they might want to correct it.

Consider the recent case of Pat Robertson, who frequently acts as if he represents the entire Christian world -- when he said something stupid, virtually all Christian leaders stood up and said "This is not who we are", "This is not what we believe ..."

Re: Leadership
 

The racial comments I'm seeing are not prompted by the fact that people are in trouble, or have lost hope. It is the gangs, the looting, the rapes, etc.

Here's Jesses comments from the link you sent -
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"I want them to know help is on the way and to keep their hope alive," Jackson said in Baton Rouge before leaving for the 70-mile trip.

Planning to stay for about six days in Louisiana, Jackson chided media reports that focused on looting and violence, saying the reports portrayed people as animals and adding he wasn't afraid to go into New Orleans.

"We're going to New Orleans today without a security guard," he said. "We trust people."

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He seems to be condemning the media coverage and not the looting and violence. Why would he be afraid to go into New Orleans? Will he condemn the behavior, ask it to stop, and then go in to help stop it?

Re: Leadership
 

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Because if the leadership of the black community is aware that prejudices and racism exist, and they believe that the stereotypes are unfounded (as I do), then they should recognize that the 24/7 streaming video is a PR problem - and they might want to correct it.


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Only racists see it as a racial problem.

Most people see it as a socioeconomic problem.

Say it with me: so·ci·o·ec·o·nom·ic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ss--k-nmk, -k-, -sh-)
adj.
Of or involving both social and economic factors.

Re: Leadership
 

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Blacks have in many ways segregated themselves by supporting and endorsing racial "leaders".

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WTF are you talking about?

Re: Leadership
 

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Only racists see it as a racial problem.

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Well then, it all makes sense now. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are racists.

Re: Leadership
 

Your OP criticized black leaders (like Jesse Jackson) for their inactivity:

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I went to Jesse Jacksons site and couldn't find any fundraising for New Orleans victims (or even a mention of).

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- yet here we have evidence that black leaders (like Jesse Jackson) are going to New Orleans to help.

Care to reconsider?

Re: Leadership
 

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Only racists see it as a racial problem.


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Well then, it all makes sense now. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are racists.

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So every time we see a Jeffrey Dahmer, or white gay bashers killing someone, or a Tim McVeigh, white leaders should view this as a PR problem?

Re: Leadership
 

While I dont like Jesse Jackson at all, I think Al Sharpton deserves a little more credit he isn't all that bad, seems like a decent guy.

Re: Leadership
 

heh I was thinking the same thing, but eveyone did condemn them unlike the black leaders are doing in this situation.

Re: Leadership
 

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Blacks have in many ways segregated themselves by supporting and endorsing racial "leaders".

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WTF are you talking about?

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I really don't believe you're asking the question. If any identifiable group of people allows another to speak for them unchallenged -- they will be associated with the beliefs of the speaker. There are many black "leaders" who have built careers perpetuating race as an issue in society, and will never miss an opportunity to use race when looking the cause of problems. These leaders like to think of "their" community as a monolithic group, and speak for them as if it is -- as such, they should condemn the behavior -- at least in general, if not as a the leader of a community.

Re: Leadership
 

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eveyone did condemn them unlike the black leaders are doing in this situation.

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I think the point is (and this should be obvious but)...everyone condemns looters!

Why should black leaders be more responsible for codemning looting than anyone else?

Should we demand white leaders come out and condemn corporate crime everytime it occurs, even though white people make up the vast majority of corporate crime predators? Shouldn't it be clear that white people condemn corporate crime already?

I think it should be pretty obvious why it's unreasonable to demand black leaders ought not to be especially responsible for condemning looting. And I think the motivation to ask black leaders especially to condemn looting is highly suspect - and I hesistate to use stronger words than that.

Re: Leadership
 

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So every time we see a Jeffrey Dahmer, or white gay bashers killing someone, or a Tim McVeigh, white leaders should view this as a PR problem?

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We don't?

Re: Leadership
 

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Should we demand white leaders come out and condemn corporate crime everytime it occurs, even though white people make up the vast majority of corporate crime predators?

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Of course white people are responsible for most corporate crime, white people make up the vast majority of corporate leaders. And we do condemn it.

If I made the same link to looting, you would call me a racist.

Should Saudi Arabia speak out against terrorism? Just because most of the terrorists were Saudi? That's not a bad reason.

Re: Leadership
 

Obviously this entire catastrophe is based on the lack of black leadership.

Re: Leadership
 

I'm starting to think they should. It sesms that everyone thinks Islamic leaders should comdem terrorists. However I dont know why the black leaders dont condemn the looters on their own behalf so the mass public doesn't get this bad impression of the black population while watching them loot on TV. Of course the black leaders think its wrong, I think coming out and saying its wrong would help people who have negative veiws of blacks, which many people do weather they admit it or not.

Re: Leadership
 

I dont...but other racial goups might which is why we have to publically condemn it like we do.

Re: Leadership
 

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Of course white people are responsible for most corporate crime, white people make up the vast majority of corporate leaders. And we do condemn it.

If I made the same link to looting, you would call me a racist.

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Everyone does condemn corporate crime - you're right.

And everyone condemns looting - and as I said, it's highly suspect to demand black leaders (especially) condemn looting; because the implication in the demand is that they don't - or at the very least, that they might not.

This is obvious, right?

And it should be obvious, then - the implication that black leaders might not condemn looting - it should be obvious why we might think to ourselves what kind of deeper motivation lies behind such a demand.

Re: Leadership
 

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Care to reconsider?

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Jesse Jackson has never missed an opportunity to get his face on television in his adult life. I don't fault him for that, it's a great skill - he's good at it. I also don't think for a second that he's there to add his muscle to the effort -- they are currently busing strong men out of the area, so there's no lack of brawn. Jesse is there to get face time. Now the question is, what will he say? Will he be a leader?

Re: Leadership
 

Obviously they think its wrong, but they need to condemn it publically to let all the people who have negative attitudes towards black people hear it. I'm suprised Cosby hasn't publically condmned this.

Re: Leadership
 

I dissagree, many blacks like people like Jessie Jackson who is always on TV talking about blacks. However I dont think he's helping them, but many blacks do. I real black leaders like Bill Cosby keeps getting shut down.

Re: Leadership
 

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Jesse Jackson has never missed an opportunity to get his face on television in his adult life. I don't fault him for that, it's a great skill - he's good at it. I also don't think for a second that he's there to add his muscle to the effort -- they are currently busing strong men out of the area, so there's no lack of brawn. Jesse is there to get face time. Now the question is, what will he say? Will he be a leader?

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Sheetwise before, in his OP: "Black leaders are at fault for their inactivity! Jesse Jackson, where are you?!? We need black leaders to stand up, at the very least, for PR purposes."

Sheetwise now: "Black leaders' activities in the recovery merely belie a hidden agenda to receive good publicity. It's all about face time. Jesse Jackson is only 'there' for good PR."

Nevermind the fact that, you demanded black leaders get active for PR purposes!

Re: Leadership
 

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Of course the black leaders think its wrong

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If it's obvious to everyone involved that black leaders think looting is wrong, why do they need to come out and condemn looting?

Re: Leadership
 

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Obviously they think its wrong, but they need to condemn it publically to let all the people who have negative attitudes towards black people hear it.

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In which case, the only people who should be demanding that black leaders condemn looting ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEGATIVE ATTITUDES ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE - since they're the only ones who have questions as to where black leaders might stand on the matter.

Hence why I'm a tad 'suspicious' of Sheetwise, to say the least.

This is just elementary logic, but I'm glad you recognized it Fishhooks.

Re: Leadership
 

Maybe I should use better words. They dont NEED to but it would benefit them and the way some people view the black population, like a PR move, like someone previously said.

Re: Leadership
 

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They dont NEED to but it would benefit them and the way some people view the black population, like a PR move, like someone previously said.

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Except that, when black leaders like Jesse Jackson go down to help - people like Sheetwise accuse them of only being interested in PR!

Re: Leadership
 

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And everyone condemns looting - and as I said, it's highly suspect to demand black leaders (especially) condemn looting; because the implication in the demand is that they don't - or at the very least, that they might not.

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If a small group of people (black leaders) owe their recognition to constantly dividing social reponsibilities, circumstances, and conditions along racial lines -- they should be the first to recognize the perception of racial behavior. In the quote sent earlier, Jesse Jackson did recognize it. He chose to frame it as media perception, and made no comment -- racial or otherwise -- about the behavior.

I'm sure he condemns looting.

Re: Leadership
 

Well PR is very tricky which is why people spend 4 years in college majoring in this. When Jessie Jackson is just out there to talk about racism and to get the blacks all rallied up against eveyone that is very bad. He is usually only in the news when negative things happen to blacks, not when blacks behave negativly. However this PR move would couldn't really hurt anyone, but it's also not necessary.

Re: Leadership
 

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I'm sure he condemns looting.

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But, you just want to hear him say it?

Think long and hard about this...you're sure he condemns looting...but you want him come out and condemn it anyway...

If you're SURE he condemns looting, what's the purpose of a public condemnation, since, as you admit...we're all sure he condemns it anyway?

Re: Leadership
 

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Well PR is very tricky which is why people spend 4 years in college majoring in this. When Jessie Jackson is just out there to talk about racism and to get the blacks all rallied up against eveyone that is very bad. He is usually only in the news when negative things happen to blacks, not when blacks behave negativly. However this PR move would couldn't really hurt anyone, but it's also not necessary.

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No, it does hurt people - in that it legitimizes the demands of racists who need to hear from black leaders what's already PATENTLY OBVIOUS - that is, BLACK LEADERS CONDEMN LOOTING

Re: Leadership
 

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In which case, the only people who should be demanding that black leaders condemn looting ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEGATIVE ATTITUDES ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE - since they're the only ones who have questions as to where black leaders might stand on the matter.

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Black leaders make their living talking about black people. Why would only racists be interested in where they stand on the matter?

Was it only racists interested in Jesse Jacksons view of the police who beat Rodney King? Jesse had a lot to say about it. When a black prisoner killed several guards a few months ago -- Jesse had very little to say about it.

Re: Leadership
 

It may just be the way this thread is going -- but I've answered that same question a few times now.

Re: Leadership
 

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Why would only racists be interested in where they stand on the matter?

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Because they're the only people who are unsure as to where black leaders stand on looting! You said it yourself - you're SURE he condemns looting! So is everyone else!

Who isn't sure he condemns looting? Racists - people who have negative images of black people - that's it. Those are the only people who question where black leaders stand on looting.

Please let me know who else, besides racists, have questions as to where Jesse Jackson stands on looting.

Re: Leadership
 

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It may just be the way this thread is going -- but I've answered that same question a few times now.

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Yeah, your answer is "for PR purposes" - who's the PR for? Racists - that's it.

In other words, Jesse Jackson needs to come meet the demands of racists and let them know he condemns looting - because they're the ONLY people who were unsure where he stood.

Fishhooks was DEAD ON accurate with this:

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Obviously they think its wrong, but they need to condemn it publically to let all the people who have negative attitudes towards black people hear it.

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Re: Leadership
 

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Please let me know who else, besides racists, have questions as to where Jesse Jackson stands on looting.


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Since you're going to push the issue, me. I was just being kind to him earlier.

I have questions. Maybe Jesse is one of those who believe that they're just getting even with the man. Maybe he sees this as some sort of indirect reparations payment. I really don't know. He's made statements in the past which make me wonder.

Re: Leadership
 

Stop with the racist crap.

If it was the local Elks Lodge looting the city, I would be looking for a comment from their Exalted Ruler.

Re: Leadership
 

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Since you're going to push the issue, me. I was just being kind to him earlier.

I have questions. Maybe Jesse is one of those who believe that they're just getting even with the man. Maybe he sees this as some sort of indirect reparations payment. I really don't know. He's made statements in the past which make me wonder.

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OHHHHH....so you aren't quite so sure!

Interesting...but NOT surprising....like I said, I was a little bit suspect this whole time.

Like I said, Fishhooks was SO right:

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Obviously they think its wrong, but they need to condemn it publically to let all the people who have negative attitudes towards black people hear it.

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Re: Leadership
 

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Stop with the racist crap.


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No, I don't think I will stop.