why you should raise pf with nonpaired cards to get 2 callers not 1
 

EDIT: for shorthanded games.

So you've raised preflop with AQ,JK,QK and got one caller. Should you of raised to aim to get one caller or two callers?

This is my reasoning why you should always aim for 2 callers and not 1 caller. Please discuss, id much appreciate it.

If you have non paired cards, it is better to see the flop 3 way. You will hit 1 in 3, and on the money you are betting you are being matched by 2 others, i.e. you are getting 2 to 1 on your money. And so whenever the 2 in 3 (68% to not pair on flop) you miss you do not bet, and the 1 in 3 (32% to pair on flop with non paired pockets) you hit you bet, and so you will only make money, as when you see the flop you are getting 2 to 1 on 33% hit. You are always making the bet on the flop with having hit and presumably ahead. It does not make sense to bluff contiuation bet as vs two opponents who have called a raise preflop the likelyhood of one having a pocket pair and will call, hitting a pair (2 in 3 times combined) or a draw, does not make it worthwhile.
Whereas if you are seeing the flop heads up with a non paired cards, you are committing yourself to contiuation betting. why? because it makes sense - you can bet just less than the pot vs an opponent with 50% fold equity. However, taking this from the preflop decision, if you are equalling a persons chips preflop ie. he calls you, if you hit or not the flop decision always appears sensible to bet, and so you by raising preflop to isolate your opponent you are not just raising preflop, but committing yourself to a cont. bet, which means you are effectively risking 9BB to win an opponents preflop call+blinds of an average of 4.5BB. Is this what you want? to be risking 9BB (on average; 3.5BB+5.5BB cont bet) to win 4.5BB (his call 3.5BB and on average 1 one limper or big big fold +1BB). Id rather be risking 3.5BB to win 8BB (2x3.5BB and 1BB on average for a limper or the BB who folds). And then with that you can simply give up if you miss (post flop loss 0) or bet out having hit (+EV). So whatever happens if you are on average raising preflop to get 2 callers with better than the average opponent callers cards, then you will without doubt win. Whereas if you are repeatedly risking 9BB to win 4.5BB, you are paying 2 units to win 1 unit, and so are only gambling the same odds for your opponent to miss the flop (67% if he has non paired cards), which is far less EV than if you saw the flop with 2 callers.

What are your thoughts?

Re: why you should raise pf with nonpaired cards to get 2 callers not 1
 

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2003...ous14jun03.GIF

Re: why you should raise pf with nonpaired cards to get 2 callers not 1
 

who is that?

Re: why you should raise pf with nonpaired cards to get 2 callers not
 

There's a lot wrong with this.

a) There's not really any raise that accomplishes what you are trying to do very often.
b) Your hand is much more likely to be good when you do flop (even when you don't), when you are heads up.
c) You should still be continuation betting quite a bit when you get 2 callers.
d) Multiway pots are (generally) more difficult to play.
e) You seem to be assuming that you always win when you flop a pair.
f) You are not committing yourself to continuation betting. There are many situations/reasons to check behind on the flop some percentage of the time.
g) You are ignoring position

There are probably a myriad of other things I didn't mention here... but generally speaking... heads up pots are easier, and easier is (generally) more profitable.

Re: why you should raise pf with nonpaired cards to get 2 callers not
 

che guevara. Get the Net!

-Diplomat

Re: why you should raise pf with nonpaired cards to get 2 callers not
 

I forgot to mention something important, its for short handed games.

Re: why you should raise pf with nonpaired cards to get 2 callers not 1
 

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who is that?

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lol

Re: why you should raise pf with nonpaired cards to get 2 callers not
 

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I forgot to mention something important, its for short handed games.

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I don't see which (if any) of my points this invalidates, or why it would be any different for full ring.

Re: why you should raise pf with nonpaired cards to get 2 callers not
 

I want as many lousy callers as possible. And as few good ones as possible. That's a better way to approach it IMO.

Re: why you should raise pf with nonpaired cards to get 2 callers not
 

You don't like hard decisions? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Oh, and btw, your next post is post 1,000. Make it good. Mine sucked cause I didn't realize it.