Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

Villain is a tough, solid, tricky player. he doesnt 3bet from the blinds much unless he has a good hand. He loves taking hands to the showdown against you so if you checkraise the flop hes often calling down with ace high unless the board gets scary for him. if you checkraise the turn he may or may not fold ace high but will often 3bet a strong pair against you.

Everyone folds to hero in the SB who raises 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], BB 3bets, Hero calls.

Flop is 4s Js 3c

Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls. (Raising is better?)

Turn is a 3c

Hero checks, BB bets

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

I like a turn checkraise here, it would be hard for him to 3 bet you without the 3 or a set. And since presumably he can't rule out a 3 for you I think you probably have enough folding equity.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

first of all i would prefer limping. i hate building big pots with [censored] suited connectors oop with no sd value and little bluffing value.

turn looks like a check and call from your description. checkraising is gonna look pretty fish to him so it seems unlikey you get him off acehigh which from your read is a very likely hand. and you open yourself up to paying thru the nose for a draw if he has a high pair or a j.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

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I like a turn checkraise here, it would be hard for him to 3 bet you without the 3 or a set. And since presumably he can't rule out a 3 for you I think you probably have enough folding equity.

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perhaps you missed this part. "but will often 3bet a strong pair against you."

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

when i say strong pair i mean JJ+ btw. i think anyone who 3bets a weaker pair then that is crazy unless its a freeshowdown move.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

This board just doesn't seem like a good one to get a TAG to fold A high on the turn by check raising. I agree with you flop check/call as big A high hands are auto calling down and overpairs are 3-betting and thus you have zero FE. Against this player I like a check/call, check/call line even though it seems weak, because I really don't think we have enough FE against these types to make the turn raise worthwhile.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

btw, i assume you mean a non spade 3.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I like a turn checkraise here, it would be hard for him to 3 bet you without the 3 or a set. And since presumably he can't rule out a 3 for you I think you probably have enough folding equity.

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perhaps you missed this part. "but will often 3bet a strong pair against you."

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No I saw that, IMO even the most aggressive postflop players will have a relatively hard time 3 betting the turn with a J or QQ-KK with the possibility of facing a cap and river bet from a 3. And second you have an estimated 12 outs so even if you only get him to fold A high or K high a few times a turn checkraise should be profitable.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

"he doesnt 3bet from the blinds much"

"He loves taking hands to the showdown against you"

Suggest we have very little fold equity. A turn check-raise look suspicous and will get looked up by Ace-high a large proportion of the time.

I much prefer a flop check-raise. I think you actually have better fold equity on the flop and represent a vulnerable pair much better. Also, you have a ton of outs and you really don't need him to fold very often at all to make the flop check-raise profitable. When the turn blanks, your equity has plummeted and you are actually perhaps more likely to get looked up now.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

im assuming a tough/solid/tricky player 3bets a little looser than usual to a sb steal. IF thats the case and he doesnt always have, say a pair or just AK here, then even if u loosen the range a little to 77-AA,KQ-KJ, AK-AT, QJ, etc. If thats the case, its basically a coinflip on the flop. 55/45 his favor usually, but sometimes 50/50, sometimes less it really just depends. Anyway, so if its practically a coinflip on the flop it really doesnt matter how many bets go in, what does matter is how it affects him laying down a smaller pair or overcards to a turn bet (or flop c/r, but that happens like never), which u become a 3:1 or 4:1 dog to once the turn hits.

So it really depends. I think c/r the turn is a little overboard as u have to call the 3bet. I think if u want to put in more bets, and the reason to do so is if hes folding a better hand, do it on the flop. Otherwise I have no problem c/c, c/c here.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

hi oreo your hand range that you gave him sounds just about what i was thinking. i should have given him a hand range to be specific.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

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first of all i would prefer limping. i hate building big pots with [censored] suited connectors oop with no sd value and little bluffing value.


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True, a good player is folding his blind here rarely. Even if he just calls your raise, on the flop hes getting 5:1 once u bet and peeling a good amount. Whereas if u complete and he checks then u bet flop, hes more likely to fold. Still, this is a situation where maybe I need to start limping more, it just always feels weird to open limp, especially OOP.

I dunno, Ive been really thinking about sb situations lately and Im starting to wonder about open-completeing lately.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

i open limp all the time out of position against good players in the BB and think victor might be right here. i open limp these hands regularly but i think its also important to be raising hands that dont have high card strength to compensate for the fact that i limp with middling cards and raising the high cards. he has to know that im raising with 8 high preflop sometimes to avoid being exploited.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

I do open complete a lot more hands than a lot more posters here, but 87s is not one of them, and against this type of opponent is not one where I'll open complete either.

I think you gotta c/r the flop. That or c/c, c/c and then concede that you aren't winning the pot without improvement. A good opponent is aware that the pot is big enough to fight for so it's more likely he's betting the turn intending to never fold before showdown.

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

archive post

Just wondering what have made you change your mind about this ?

Re: Blind Battles: Hand #7
 

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Villain is a tough, solid, tricky player. he doesnt 3bet from the blinds much unless he has a good hand. He loves taking hands to the showdown against you so if you checkraise the flop hes often calling down with ace high unless the board gets scary for him. if you checkraise the turn he may or may not fold ace high but will often 3bet a strong pair against you.


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Given this description I don't understand any line besides check/call, check/call, check/fold unimproved. What am I missing?

Thanks,
Cartman