Poker Players, or What is that stuff under that rock?
 

The casino pyramid:
At the top of the casino pyramid you have the degenerate slot players. They drop all their money in the slots, and it is like money in the bank to the casino. The casino will do everything they can to attract these players and keep them happy.

Next you have the high limit table players. The house edge isn't as high or the action as fast, but they are money in the bank. The casino will treat them right.

Along the base, you have the casual vistors, who come for entertainment and are always good for dropping a quick $50 or so. Don't have to do much to keep them happy, but you want them to come back. They come in, drop their money and leave.

Now down at the bottom, you got the poker players. The games are pretty labor intensive, they dress bad, smell funny, and hang around for hours and hours. But, hey, they make the house some money, so you tolerate them and try to look the other way as much as possible.

And the bottom of the bottom? Well, that would be the lowest of the the low limit poker players. They usually don't act professional at all like the higher limit players, and they only have a small bankroll that the house can get off them. I mean, even if the house had 100% rake, how much are you going to make off a guy with $82.95 in his pocket?

Don't agree?

Well, imagine you run a resturant. You got people in the back rooms popping bottles of $500 champagne. In the dinner room, people are ordering expensive steak dinners. Lots of people drop in for the sights, and buy expensive fancy drinks.

In the front you have a small lunch counter. Guys come in, order a single cup of .80 cent coffee, and sit and sip on it for hours at a time. You tolerate them, and hope there is a stool open in case a good patron wants to sit for a quick bite to eat.

One day one of the all day coffee sippers comes to you with a complaint, while you are trying to redecorate one of the banquet halls for a big private expensive holiday dinner bash. His complaint? Well, once in a blue moon, he orders a second cup of coffee, and it seems that sometimes the waitress is slow in bringing it to him.

In fact, he demands, if the waitress is not quicker with her coffee pouring, he will take his business to some other lunch counter!

You are the resturant owner, what is your reply?

Re: Poker Players, or What is that stuff under that rock?
 

"Mannn, I said I'll suck yoooo D*CK!"

Re: Poker Players, or What is that stuff under that rock?
 

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"Mannn, I said I'll suck yoooo D*CK!"

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i got deez cheeseburgers, man!

Re: Poker Players, or What is that stuff under that rock?
 

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You are the resturant owner, what is your reply?

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First, his nuts get kicked. Then I drag his sorry azz to the front door and toss him.

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Great read. Maybe a little too much thought required by those who need to understand it, though. But still a good try.

Re: Poker Players, or What is that stuff under that rock?
 

Your casino heirarchy is correct, except for your separation of regular poker players & low limits.

As a restaurant owner, those 8 guys ordering filets (playing $30-60) and the guy ordering the cup of coffee ($2-4) both make the same amount of money for the casino ($4/hand rake). While a little more clueless, the cup of coffee guys are usually more friendly and tip better. And there's a lot more of coffee cup drinkers.

Re: Poker Players, or What is that stuff under that rock?
 

You are correct -- but only in part. A better analogy is to look at the poker room as a loss leader (although they don't lose money in the poker room). The poker room brings in business. Many poker players bring friends or significant others who understand enought about poker to be afraid to play poker with people who are very likely to play better than them. So what do the friends and family do? They play blackjack, they play slots, they play craps, they pay to see expensive shows and eat in expensive restaurants. In addition, many poker players are still degenerate gamblers (count me in) and, after taxing their brain for eight hours playing poker, like to "relax" with a drink at the craps tables.

People who walk in alone, play poker and walk out, will not make the casino a whole lot of cash. But poker is a draw now and a poker room brings in players and they in turn bring more business to the rest of the firm.

So you are wrong in part -- if a poker player "demands" an accomodation that is not financially significant, you go ahead and give the customer what he wants. If a poker player "demands" a free room or a five star meal, you say "no dice" or -- better yet -- "go play dice."

Edit: Continuing your analogy to the restaurant -- if the guy that buys coffee a few times a week also comes in twice a year for a five course meal and expensive wine, you make damn sure he is happy with his coffee. And even if does not come in for the big ticket meal, you make sure he is happy because he is still giving you significant business over the course of the year and may come in for a few expensive drinks after work and may tell his boss about the nice place he buys coffee... and his boss may have the Christmas party there next year. You don't hire another waitress just for this customer, but you tell the waitress to be more attentive and stop flirting with the cook.

Re: Poker Players, or What is that stuff under that rock?
 

My analogy: Who makes more money? Wal-Mart or the Foo-Foo-La-La Boutique? Certainly the Boutique has a higher profit margin, but they dont make more money.

"God loves the working man, or he wouldn't have made so many of them."

Re: Poker Players, or What is that stuff under that rock?
 

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My analogy: Who makes more money? Wal-Mart or the Foo-Foo-La-La Boutique? Certainly the Boutique has a higher profit margin, but they dont make more money.


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Well, which of the two generates more revenue per square foot? This is how casinos view poker rooms. The powers that be know that the average slot machine makes $X/year and that you can fit so many machines in Y square feet. So then the poker room director has to try to defend why the space he uses for his room is worth having when it brings in so much less revenue than a group of slots. This is why so many rooms get closed or neglected, even though they are profitable in and of themselves.

Of course, we all see the ancillary business that a room can create. Staying at the hotel, going to shows, spouse plays slots while you’re in the poker room, etc. I just remembered a Card Player article Sklansky wrote a number of years ago when a lot of Vegas rooms were being closed. He argued that, as slot machines are added, their marginal value drops steeply and so some casinos were probably overestimating the profit potential of additional machines.

Re: Poker Players, or What is that stuff under that rock?
 

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Well, which of the two generates more revenue per square foot?

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Wal-mart does, and it's not close.

Re: Poker Players, or What is that stuff under that rock?
 

I think you got your two categories of poker players reversed. Casinos generally prefer the low limit players. There are many more of them, they tip better and they're more docile.
High limit players (some of them anyways) act like they own the place and can be major pains. Also they tend to tip worse and are more likely to abuse the dealers.