Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

This is obviously a samplesize issue, and I'm just venting a bit, but man is it frustrating being a solid online player, consistent winner over a few dozen thousand hands, and yet I've never had a winning session at a live casino.

Worse yet, I've never actually been in the + for any live session, ever [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Is this true or remotely so for anyone else? I have a lot of fun playing in real life, but it's so unprofitable for me I might just stop doing it [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I was -10bb/hr today playing pretty well at 4/8.

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Anyways, for some content. Can anyone find a fold on this river? Opponent is a pretty good tag, been causing me a lot of headaches.

I'm BB with K6, see the flop for free with 4 players total.
Flop is K93.
I check attempting to c/r and it checks through
Turn is a K
I lead out and get 1 caller from late-middle position.
River is an 8, rainbow
I bet and the tag wakes up and raises me.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

No, I can't find a fold.

I don't play that often at B&M casinos, but they can be pretty frustrating. I've never played higher than 4/8 live, but I've found that the players, on average, are worse and fishier than even Party players (and many more per table). So there's generally a lot of steady bleeding and then a really big pot now and then. What really frustrates me is how few hands you see compared to online...seems like an eternity until you get a playable hand sometimes (and no multitabling, of course). Then you've got twice the rake of online, tips for the dealer, tips for the waitresses...ugh. Me no like playing small stakes at a B&M unless I'm just there to have fun playing live. And for some reason, I always seem to have more fun when I'm making a profit.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

I bet the flop, especiallly if one of the players is the sb. Going for the c/r is not a bad line either though depending on the players left to act. Looks like he hit 88 on the river, but I'd have a hard time folding.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

Like you said, it is almost certainly a sample size problem, as I highly doubt that you are a winner online, but a loser at 4/8 B&M. It seems like most live games are comparable to online games that are considerably lower (i.e. limits up to even 10/20 or higher play like party .5/1.00 sometimes).

From a profitability standpoint, it's not really worth your time to play live unless you play quite a bit higher than you do online. You will see significantly fewer hands and likely have to deal with a higher rake, tokes, etc.

All that being said, I love playing live; it's a lot of fun to actually handle chips and cards and get to see the faces of the people you're playing against. I'm confident that if you continue playing live, you will show a profit, but it will take much longer to approach any kind of "long term" live. I would say if you enjoy playing B&M (even though it's less profitable), continue doing so. I think it's important to maintain some fun aspect to the game to avoid burnout. About a year ago I went through that and just couldn't stand the game anymore and ended up taking 10+ months off of poker which I now wish I would not have.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

i LOVE playing live. you just have to adjust and learn to read players. that King hand was just unfortunate if you lost, but i can't believe "TAG" let the flop check through and you did not bet initially. it has been my experience that people don't like to fold at 4/8 live so i cut back my bluffing tremendously since they are calling anyway. i do value bet more, as you are called by hands that you can't fathom seeing people call with online. the online games are more aggressive, but their is a better selection. most of the lower limit live games i play(4/8-10/20) are loose and passive. it comes down to a matter of your hand holding up and yes, it can be frustrating...but come on, running bad is part of the game.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

What relative position is your tag opponent? Tag limped in late-middle, thus wont have a 88 unless all the other limpers limped in before him/her. Against one or two limpers, tag would have likely isloated with the 88 or would have bet a K on the flop (or even isolated PF). What is your table image? As played, I cannot see the tag as beleiving you have a K, and is often bluffing or hoping to win with an 8 and/or 9.

I don't fold this river, in fact, I think I raise.


About playing in BM. Realize that even bad players can pick up on tells; they often have a lot of experience. Read Caro's book on tells.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

Maybe silly question, but are the live games full ring?

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

Yes, it would be rare to find a live game that isn't going to seat up to 9 or 10 players. The only time live small stakes games seem to go shorthanded is right before they're about to break because many people don't want to play short.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

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Yes, it would be rare to find a live game that isn't going to seat up to 9 or 10 players. The only time live small stakes games seem to go shorthanded is right before they're about to break because many people don't want to play short.

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this is my experience as well. either a)players are scared to play short or b)they don't want to pay full rake and the casino doesn't want to give a break.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, it would be rare to find a live game that isn't going to seat up to 9 or 10 players. The only time live small stakes games seem to go shorthanded is right before they're about to break because many people don't want to play short.

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured that, but I was wondering if this particular session was.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

BTW, a small note. I've only had 4 sessions of IRL play, total of 20-25 hours, 3 2/4 sessions and today was my first 4/8 session. Although in that timeframe I'm down like a lot, $500ish :/ Some of those sessions were back before I was even playing seriously however (2 of them were before even reading 2p2 and realizing what a TAG was etc).

Back to the hand.
The TAG had limped behind others and decided to slowplay a set of 9s.

It was national slowplay day at my table (I'm not sure anybody who flopped 2-pair or better bet/raised the flop the entire session). I obviously didn't put him on the set of 9s, my big problem with calling/re-raising the river is that people at this table just weren't bluffing, or so I've seen. I figured he had to at least have a K he slowplayed and I was worried about my kicker at that point.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

no

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

I live in LA so i see lots of maniacs playing live. My take is this (from a LA perspective): I prefer NL in live games because i allow my opponents to make more mistakes when i make them draw on bad odds.

However, in Limit holdem, LA casinos are not the place for limit holdem all the way up to 10/20. The games are just too loose and with 4 plus people seeing the flop constantly, they are correctly to draw all the way to the river and i can't really blame them when they give me bad beats.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

The live sample size is so small compared to playing online that anything can happen. IT IS SO [censored] SLOW

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

Nice gimmick account [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

We make money from bad players, your statement is not logical. LA is precisely the place you want to be for limit hold'em any any other form of poker.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

[ QUOTE ]
However, in Limit holdem, LA casinos are not the place for limit holdem all the way up to 10/20. The games are just too loose and with 4 plus people seeing the flop constantly, they are correctly to draw all the way to the river and i can't really blame them when they give me bad beats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stick to NL hold em. You don't understand limit at all.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, in Limit holdem, LA casinos are not the place for limit holdem all the way up to 10/20. The games are just too loose and with 4 plus people seeing the flop constantly, they are correctly to draw all the way to the river and i can't really blame them when they give me bad beats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stick to basket weaving. You don't understand poker at all.

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FYP

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

Actually live I'm comfortably ahead at 10/20 and just last night sat 20/40 to the tune of about +10BB over 4 hrs. As several OP said, it's fun.

My experience (mostly at the Hollywood Casino in Aurora IL and Parkers in Seattle) is that mid-limit live plays like small stakes online. In fact, at the Hollywood, the evening 10/20 game is _softer_ than PP 2/4 daytime. The drunks all like to gambool and jam. Just gotta play good cards, make em pay, standard operating procedure.

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

Hey man, i am just giving my sentiment on the question.

explain to me your point?

Re: Anybody struggle to win in live games while beating online easily?
 

Artie and Sheffield are probably intentionally cold-decking you. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

A few salient points:

1. Live games are slow. The sample size is small. You feel the variance more.

2. Live games are more emotional. You may have problems where you tilt in live games where you're more immersed in the action but are better at distancing yourself from the situation when playing against computer people.

3. Live games are more social. This can cause a "have fun" attitude that leads to playing too many hands, trying to make creative plays to impress people, and so on. Live games have so odd social incentives built in that often run counter to solid play.


BUT, I love playing live, and feel I consistently have a winrate that is probably 50% higher in live games than online, for a couple of reasons:

1. The players are worse at comparable levels. (I played a 10/20 last night that was easier than most 2/4 tables)

2. You have MUCH more information. Physical tells allow you to make better instinctual reads. Listening to other players talk about the game can let you get into other players heads much better. And so on.

So keep at it!