Two Plus Two Older Archives

Two Plus Two Older Archives (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/index.php)
-   Brick and Mortar (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/forumdisplay.php?f=25)
-   -   Was asked to coach another player last night, now what? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=404793)

Percula 12-24-2005 10:18 PM

Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
So I am playing next to one of the regulars in my normal game. He is a nice enough guy, but frankly he is one of the fish. We talk sometimes about hands, I try not to educate the fish, but sometimes the nice guy in me comes out at the table and I will give him some simple advise if he asks.

So after a hand that he misplayed he asked me about it, and in a moment of weakness I told how I would have played it. He was impressed and understood what I was talking.

He got up and followed me on a break and corned me and offed me a deal to coach him. The deal, he pays me about what I would expect to make in a good session for each session I coach him. This would be an on going thing until he felt he was beyond the need. Rather that ends up being one session or 20 I do not know. I told him I would think about it and let him know next time we see each other.

So basically how this would work is I would instead of sitting the table I would sit behind him, see his cards and after the hand and after the session in a more deatiled manner than time, etc allows at the table side, we would review each hand and situation and I would give him my take.

So I am considering this. On one hand it is a locked up profitable session without risk of loss. On the other hand, I am teaching a fish not to be a fish. I am adding yet another strong player to game I regularly play and lose a player I can easily out play. There is also the reaction of the other players in the game to be considered. Most of the regular players there have enough respect for me that it would not be a problem and they would also most likely clam any nits about too.

I am leaning towards doing it, but thought I would get some other thoughts before proceeding.

JDErickson 12-25-2005 12:22 AM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
Sometimes I think we all get too locked up in not helping the fish.

As long as this guy is a good guy I see no reason not to help him out.

I'm not sure if I like you sitting behind him seeing his cards though. That will be your problem I think.

BigFishSmallCardRoom 12-25-2005 12:24 AM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
I'm leaning toward a NO, don't coach him. You'll probably make more in the long run keeping a fish in the game, one donator really drives the action for the entire game. I personally don't get chummy with the weak players, I don't want to end up feeling guilty if we don't soft play.

Percula 12-25-2005 01:20 AM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm leaning toward a NO, don't coach him. You'll probably make more in the long run keeping a fish in the game, one donator really drives the action for the entire game. I personally don't get chummy with the weak players, I don't want to end up feeling guilty if we don't soft play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep that is part of what is holding me back.

He is not a big donator in the game, he is just an easy weak/tight target for me to pick on. The drunks drive my game. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I have no guilt issues what so ever. If you put our money on the felt, it is fair game baby and my goal is to take all of it.

StellarWind 12-25-2005 02:34 AM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
[ QUOTE ]
There is also the reaction of the other players in the game to be considered.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why?

In the name of profit you exploit drunken fish and compulsive gamblers on a regular basis. Obviously you are OK with that.

Someone wants to pay you to coach him. No doubt this will increase his enjoyment of the game and make his life better in a small way.

Now you are worried about what other people will think of you!?

You would be at a poker table doing something that is legal, ethical, and makes you money. You don't owe anything to the other players. Do what you want to do.

Jeebus 12-25-2005 03:40 AM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
you can always coach him about halfway. don't give him the insights of your reads and such, but explain basic theory to him. He has the choice of going and buying TOP and SSHE an learning or he can pay you to teach it to him. One way Mason and Skalnsky make a few bucks, the other you make a decent amount. I know what my choice would be.

mshalen 12-25-2005 08:16 AM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
Let me see if I understand the situation correctly. You have come to a FREE message board web site where PEOPLE YOU DON'T KNOW openly trade hand histories and ask for FREE help in the proper way to have played a hand, to ask if you should help another player who has come to you for some basic help. So in other words, you, after recieving a tremendous amout of free helpful advise, are wondering if you should extend that same benefit to someone else?

If you don't want to help the guy the very least you could do is direct him here and then leave the rest up to him.

This is not directed at the OP but sometime I get upset when I read things about "not helping the fish". We were all that fish at some point and people here have freely given some excellent (and some rotten) advise that we have all benefited from. I found this site when I picked a book (so long ago I don't remember which book) at Borders and on the back was a small blurb saying "For the best discussion of poker and gambling on the internet visit out web site". Well I went to that web site, bought many books, studied and posted questions and here I am with a bankroll many many times larger than the one I started with. I owe a significant thanks to everyone associated with 2+2.

boogiemang 12-25-2005 08:26 AM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
theres plenty of fish in the game. hes a nice guy, trying to improve, and i dont think you have anything to lose by this.

henrikrh 12-25-2005 08:53 AM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
Tell him your concern with eductating a fish and then ask to bump the price up a bit.

bernie 12-25-2005 02:22 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't want to end up feeling guilty if we don't soft play.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you would feel guilty about this, with a player that you're 'teaching', you shouldn't be teaching. This should be a prime lesson to be learned. You can still be chummy and friendly and play each other hard.

b

bernie 12-25-2005 02:32 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
Give it a shot and help him. He may easily just quit after awhile and go back to his normal, old donating ways. Remember, don't assume he will become this 'strong' player. Many start out studying. Then upon realization of just what it takes to win, and how it means not being in many hands, quit playing tight because they like being actually 'involved' in more hands. They can really get enamored when they see a bad player on a big run and the tight style they're trying is losing.

You should be flattered when someone asks you for this. I wouldn't care what the reaction to the other players in the game is. It has nothing to do with them.

b

Percula 12-25-2005 03:14 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is also the reaction of the other players in the game to be considered.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why?

Now you are worried about what other people will think of you!?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only two things give me worry and neither really has to do with "what they think of me".

Some people are going to play differently against me than they would have before seeing me coach another regular. That will take time to adjust to and could be costly in the mean time. Not a major concern, but something for me to consider.

More likely will be the nit(s) that will want to make a big deal of it and disrupt the game as a result. Which has the chain reaction effect of pissing off the regulars, the dealer(s) and the floor.

Percula 12-25-2005 03:18 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
[ QUOTE ]
If you don't want to help the guy the very least you could do is direct him here and then leave the rest up to him.


[/ QUOTE ]

Already have, he is a lurker here. Likely has been following the thread too.

But frankly this media is not the best for carrying on a deep talk. It is static and slow. You can get a lot more done in a ten minute conversation than you can in a day of posts here.

Al_Capone_Junior 12-25-2005 03:33 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
I would say yes in a heartbeat. Guaranteed income. As for the rest of the players, now they KNOW that you're SO GOOD that people will pay to get lessons from you. Now you exploit that image with slightly looser play and a few more bluffs. Either way, you win. It's a propaganda war on the one hand, and a simple teaching job on the other.

I DO give lessons. If you're willing to pay me, I'll give you an abundance of solid and specific advice on how to play a variety of card games, including limit or no limit hold'em.

There are plenty of fish to go around, and plenty of games, so I'm not worried about the consequences of educating one particular fish. After all, there's there's a sea full of them.

al

bernie 12-25-2005 03:51 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Some people are going to play differently against me than they would have before seeing me coach another regular. That will take time to adjust to and could be costly in the mean time. Not a major concern, but something for me to consider.


[/ QUOTE ]

Doubt it. In what way will they play different? I wouldn't even consider it until I actually notice a change in the action. Even then it doesn't necesarily mean anything. They're regulars. They've already seen how you play. You're giving them too much credit.

Another thing...who says you have to announce to everyone what you're doing when you're sitting behind him watching? Just act like you're a bud to the guy who wants to sweat him a couple hands. You don't feel like playing but want to watch him for a bit.

You're making this out to be much more than it is.

b

bernie 12-25-2005 03:54 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
[ QUOTE ]
You can get a lot more done in a ten minute conversation than you can in a day of posts here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necesarily.

b

12-26-2005 06:17 AM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
[ QUOTE ]

I am leaning towards doing it, but thought I would get some other thoughts before proceeding.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course you are welcome to do it. Poker pros the world over are peddling their advice right now in the form of books, DVD's, poker camps, and even one-on-one tutoring for those with deep pockets. There was a great deal of hand wringing angst about the hole card cams when the TV broadcasts of the tourneys started doing it, with all the pros fearing their "secrets" would be revealed, but it turns out this was the greatest thing that ever happened to the game. So if you WANT to do it, by all means, charge ahead.

12-26-2005 02:40 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
I'd do it.

Tell him that his final exam will be with you playing. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

If a player wanted to learn and approached me the same way, I would not hesitate to help provided he is a good person (based on his attitude at the table and from conversations). If I saw you with him at the game, I wouldn't object.

Recliner 12-26-2005 03:57 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would say yes in a heartbeat. Guaranteed income. As for the rest of the players, now they KNOW that you're SO GOOD that people will pay to get lessons from you. Now you exploit that image with slightly looser play and a few more bluffs. Either way, you win. It's a propaganda war on the one hand, and a simple teaching job on the other.

I DO give lessons. If you're willing to pay me, I'll give you an abundance of solid and specific advice on how to kick people in the nuts, including from the front, back or sides, left or right footed.

There are plenty of fish to go around, and plenty of games, so I'm not worried about the consequences of educating one particular fish. After all, there's there's a sea full of them.

al

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

yellowjack 12-26-2005 06:28 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
Educate him. If you have any sense of humanity left in poker you'll actually feel happy and satisfied if he becomes a better player, and make a good friend for the next few years.

This at the cost of a portion of your winnings.

BUD 12-26-2005 07:36 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
I think it would be easier to sweat him while he plays online. Plus you will obviously see more hands.
bud

12-26-2005 07:48 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
Dont price according to your earn rate. Price according to the value to him.

12-26-2005 08:00 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
teaching is a great way to learn.

RacersEdge 12-27-2005 03:37 AM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
Why don't you just coach him online?

TheMetetron 12-27-2005 04:44 AM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
Important:

What limit?

Percula 12-27-2005 05:36 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Important:

What limit?

[/ QUOTE ]

5-150 spread limit.

adios 12-27-2005 06:06 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Some people are going to play differently against me than they would have before seeing me coach another regular. That will take time to adjust to and could be costly in the mean time. Not a major concern, but something for me to consider.


[/ QUOTE ]

Doubt it. In what way will they play different? I wouldn't even consider it until I actually notice a change in the action. Even then it doesn't necesarily mean anything. They're regulars. They've already seen how you play. You're giving them too much credit.

Another thing...who says you have to announce to everyone what you're doing when you're sitting behind him watching? Just act like you're a bud to the guy who wants to sweat him a couple hands. You don't feel like playing but want to watch him for a bit.

You're making this out to be much more than it is.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

12-27-2005 06:28 PM

Re: Was asked to coach another player last night, now what?
 
If you don't help him out, he may find someone else to do it anyway. You may as well take the assured "winnings" from a session of coaching him. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.