putting a live hand together
 

This hand took place yesterday at canterbury in the 30/60 game. The game had started heads up between another player and I when the 3rd player sat down. He's a 25 year old construction contractor who looks 19...and takes himself and the game WAYYYY too seriously...sunglasses...hat etc. He showed up out of nowhere a couple weeks ago and has been on a heater since. I'd describe him as randomly aggressive...and semi-retarded. Definately a losing player but he does enough accidentally right that he probably isn't losing a ton either as long as the line-up isn't overly tough. He knows I play bigger and thinks I'm tight and aggressive. This is a very big game to him and he takes the money very seriously.

Anyhow, it's 3 handed and the button folds, I raise K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the sb.

He calls.

Flop T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet, he pauses, I peak left as he's in the 5 seat and i'm in the 4...he's one of the type that holds his cards in one hand like a millimeter above the felt...and he drops his cards and takes his index finger and just about mucks, when he picks them back up and calls. This was no fake tell. This was honest 'about to muck'. I don't think he thinks I saw this for some reason.

Ok, he doesn't have anything. He's the type that LOVES aces and almost surely would have re-raised an ace pre-flop. So maybe he has goofyish straight draw or an over card or 2.

Turn is an 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet, he pauses for about 10 seconds and cuts off a raise.

Stop. You were super close to folding the flop...and now that an 8 comes you're raising? That doesn't make much logical sense...but then again I'm not dealing with a logical player. Did you just turn a straight draw? A diamond draw? A pair of 8's? A random bluff?

King high is still pretty decent vs most those hands. I call.

River 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Not the worlds best card but we're only 1 bet away from showdown. Lets see what's up. I check, he bets, I call.

"Good call, I missed" and shows J7o.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

Good story, I enjoyed it.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

nice hand; very angeloesque

Re: putting a live hand together
 

BK,

You've got a little Angelo in you already. Nice story and, of course, he should have known not to try that after he nearly mucked. Good thought process by you.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

Nice.

Lots of times, the fake almost-about-to-fold guys wait until the river to raise. When it's real, it's often some kind of back-door with one overcard or somesuch and they will then raise the turn if their draw improves. Especially when there are no aces or faces on the board and you raised preflop, because they then put you on two unimproved big cards.

Also, guys in the 4, 5, and 6 seats, when competing against somebody else in one of those seats, feel a bit less concerned about tells because most players in those seats don't make an effort to look to the side to see what other players are doing (except preflop). Especially shorthanded since there's no audience watching them.

While you seem to be a great guy, I'm glad you're not in California.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

nice hand, BK.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

I think the biggest part about this hand, since the game just started, is how much BK's EV in this 3 handed game improves after that.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

standard

Re: putting a live hand together
 

[ QUOTE ]
standard

[/ QUOTE ]

As in standard awesome bk post? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: putting a live hand together
 

no as in standard. this what live play is all about imo. you get a read you stick with it and you make a great play. i love live poker so very much.

last night i had J8 in the sb. some kid in the c/o openlimped, i called, bb (justin) checked. the flop came AKQ. we all checked. that meant that the c/o had none of that. the turn is a 2. i check, justin checks meaning he has none of it, kid bets. i call him down.

these sorts of hands come up frequently in live poker.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, guys in the 4, 5, and 6 seats, when competing against somebody else in one of those seats, feel a bit less concerned about tells because most players in those seats don't make an effort to look to the side to see what other players are doing (except preflop). Especially shorthanded since there's no audience watching them.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hey andy, I never really thought about this at all. thanks for shraring.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

BK - it's impossible he'd be that close to folding 38 or 48 on that flop, so his best possible hand is K8, right?
What's wrong with 3-betting here, when most likely he's on a draw/bluff.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

mike l.,

I would have checkraised the turn.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

"I would have checkraised the turn."

i like the idea of check-calling and letting him bet. although maybe he catches up, he spews two bets every time as well so you make like 1.5 bets instead of just the one. plus you never end up w/ a misread situation where youre spewing and he's paired and showdown bound. you read me?

Re: putting a live hand together
 

But he might drop 77 or something if you checkraise the turn. Perhaps, that's why El D suggests the turn checkraise although I probably just checkcall like you did for the reasons you gave.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

[ QUOTE ]
no as in standard. this what live play is all about imo. you get a read you stick with it and you make a great play. i love live poker so very much.

last night i had J8 in the sb. some kid in the c/o openlimped, i called, bb (justin) checked. the flop came AKQ. we all checked. that meant that the c/o had none of that. the turn is a 2. i check, justin checks meaning he has none of it, kid bets. i call him down.

these sorts of hands come up frequently in live poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see what this hand has to do with live vs online poker. I've made that calldown online plenty of times too.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

"But he might drop 77 or something if you checkraise the turn."

nah bad players tend not to do that.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

Nah, he doesn't have a pair, BK was sure of it.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

It is true... people just try to give away their money in that game. I thought it was a fishing tale when a good friend told me that after returning from Canterbury in September. Guess not--definitely going to have to come visit!

Re: putting a live hand together
 

it's not that you cant have reads online, but live play is so full of reads available to the best observant players that it's a significantly different animal.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

For a small stakes player like me, this post is pure gold.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nah, he doesn't have a pair, BK was sure of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they are talking about mike l hand now.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

Hi BK,

Good read. As I was reading your post I was reminded of a Clark post a while back, advocating that if you think you should call the river w/ K-high, you might be better off raising. How do you think this link applies to your hand, or does it at all?

thanks,

lf

Re: putting a live hand together
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi BK,

Good read. As I was reading your post I was reminded of a Clark post a while back, advocating that if you think you should call the river w/ K-high, you might be better off raising. How do you think this link applies to your hand, or does it at all?

thanks,

lf

[/ QUOTE ]

That thread came to mind for me too.

b

Re: putting a live hand together
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi BK,

Good read. As I was reading your post I was reminded of a Clark post a while back, advocating that if you think you should call the river w/ K-high, you might be better off raising. How do you think this link applies to your hand, or does it at all?

thanks,

lf

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats an interesting thought, but I think the metagame effects of calling someone down with King high (especially live) are too great to make it correct.

Re: putting a live hand together
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi BK,

Good read. As I was reading your post I was reminded of a Clark post a while back, advocating that if you think you should call the river w/ K-high, you might be better off raising. How do you think this link applies to your hand, or does it at all?

thanks,

lf

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats an interesting thought, but I think the metagame effects of calling someone down with King high (especially live) are too great to make it correct.

[/ QUOTE ]


this reminds me of last week when i tried to bluff a TAG with QJ-high on an unpaired board and it turned out to be the best value bet of my life. no one folds A high HU ever online

Re: putting a live hand together
 

nice read