Am I overplaying draws again? 200NL
 

I'm having problems justifying my donk-overbet-flop-push here (and in general) - do you think it would be better if I were to just call villains' donk raise on the flop?

I do make these moves with sets too, fwiw, but I think Im giving too much away here.

Villain is a bit of an unimaginative nut peddlar, 17%vpip, 3%pfr from 100 hands, and does nothing extraordinary.

The game is 200NL 6max on Crypto.

My stack (SB) $198
Villain (BB) has me covered.

3 limpers, I complete with J8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Villain checks.

Flop: $8: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet $8, Villain makes it $16, all fold to me and I push.

Thoughts appreciated.

Cheers!

Ojo_Rojo

Edit: How do I get xmas hats on my avatar? Thanks!

Re: Am I overplaying draws again? 200NL
 

why not just make a pot sized 3-bet?

Re: Am I overplaying draws again? 200NL
 

Certainly I would have done if I had position, but I didnt want to risk being stuck on a blank turn OOP.

I guessed a smooth call would be better than a 3-bet, no?

Ojo_Rojo

Re: Am I overplaying draws again? 200NL
 

I like a call and check-raise all-in on most turns.

Re: Am I overplaying draws again? 200NL
 

The problem with pushing is you will rarely/never get called by a hand you're ahead of. Depending on the player I will sometimes pump it to $60 (with the intention of pushing the turn if called) or I may just call and see a cheap turn card. Against a player like the one you explained I think calling is the best play on the flop. There is no way a tight player like this one is calling with less than a set, unless he limped with a big pair.

Re: Am I overplaying draws again? 200NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is a bit of an unimaginative nut peddlar, 17%vpip, 3%pfr from 100 hands, and does nothing extraordinary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your jack and flush could both be dominated. This looks like one of those spots where if villain is willing to come along, to a push, you will be behind.

He could have a straight draw, but I see a lot of sets/2prs against nits with this action. I would call and try to get more in on the turn depending on the card.

If the flush gets there, lead, if he comes over the top I fold to a nit.

If the turn blanks, check, if he raises it depends on the implied odds (if any).

Re: Am I overplaying draws again? 200NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way a tight player like this one is calling with less than a set, unless he limped with a big pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take your point, thanks. However, if this is true, then there is also a good chance I can get villain to fold a better hand.

Ojo_Rojo

Re: Am I overplaying draws again? 200NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your jack and flush could both be dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer your line to mine, and I agree that if my push is called I'm not happy.

However I think my hand is only really dominated by a set.

Ojo_Rojo

Re: Am I overplaying draws again? 200NL
 

With your read on Villain as a nutpeddler his miniraise must scare you. Looks like a set or a higher flush draw, I'm calling and proceed with caution.

Re: Am I overplaying draws again? 200NL
 

If villain will fold anything less than a set, this is a great move, but in my opinion, overbetting the pot all-in seems too much like a draw. He has to be thinking, why would he raise to 5 times the pot if he wants to keep me in? If you want to represent a set, I think calling the flop and check-raising the turn all-in seems like a good idea.

Re: Am I overplaying draws again? 200NL
 

Key when pushing a draw is FoldEquity - the less outs, the higher FE has to be. The lower the pot in comparison to your push, the higher FE has to be again.

You have a non Nut FD + TP. I prefer to have the lower cards paired, as it increases my outs against a TP-hand, while remains the same vs. overpairs.

You are pushing a not too big draw into a tiny pot = you need huge FE.

You bet pot, a nit minraises. It's not proved, but it's very likely that
- he has a quality hand, giving you huge implied odds
- FE is low.

So I don't like your line.

A normal reraise, puts you into a tough spot on turn if just called and destroys you if pushed. No good.

Some posters voted for the turn CR all-in. I don't like it. He too often will feel too commited with an overpair. I'd much rather like it against a tricky/aggro player, who might play like this on air or draw.

I like calling the raise, which spews implied odds, check a turned blank and reevaluate when he bets, if he pots, I have to fold.
Am I too unimaginitive?

Re: Am I overplaying draws again? 200NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is a bit of an unimaginative nut peddlar

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain makes it $16

[/ QUOTE ]

Call flop. Check/call or check/fold turn if you whiff.

Re: Am I overplaying draws again? 200NL
 

just take a turn. pair + flush draws are not as strong as people think in l;imped pots.