5 Card Draw Maniac
 

Maybe this is more of a poker theory question but...
The other night I had a bonafide maniac 2 to my right while playing 5CD (raise any pair or 2 paint if he was the first in). He didn't make many loose calls, but he bluffed a lot when checked to. Since my opponent is raising light let's say I have a marginal hand like QQ. Should I 3-bet it or flat call and induce a bluff after the draw? There's usually not a lot of maniacs playing draw so I was at a loss at what to do.

Re: 5 Card Draw Maniac
 

I think you have to 3-bet it. If he's open-raising with that kind of garbage then with QQ you're going to have a better hand than he has the great majority of the time. If you 3-bet you have a better chance of getting it heads-up against him with you having the edge. Of course, some of the time he's going to have trips or aces-up or something (even maniacs get real cards now and then) and you're going to feel like a dork for reraising with a pair of queens, but if he's that loose a raiser I think you're going to come out ahead in the end.

Re: 5 Card Draw Maniac
 

Yeah, I would three bet. Or maybe every once in a while, call then check raise if you improve after the draw.

Re: 5 Card Draw Maniac
 

i dunno about the pre-draw slowplay to get the big bet in - not just this hand but generally - i have more or less done without it to date - if i was going to try the pre-draw slowplay i would prefer to have a rock

i would 3 bet - this would be getting close to a fold though with say 3 guys behind me (probably anxious to call) and no prospect of stealing the blinds

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

Re: 5 Card Draw Maniac
 

as a general rule ... Isolate the maniacs ... so with QQ 3 bet
if someone comes in behind, they either picked up what you are doing(and have AA or KK for a call) or they have at least 2 pair. As for not seeing many draw maniacs online, I have no idea what you are talking about, they are everywhere.

Re: 5 Card Draw Maniac
 

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As for not seeing many draw maniacs online, I have no idea what you are talking about, they are everywhere.

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No doubt. My favorite was the player from whom I took $80 from in 15 minutes playing 1/2 heads-up at Paradise. Finally, after I won with a pair of 6s, he left, saying something in the chat bar about "you're too good for me."

Favorite heads-up/maniac move: Smooth calling his raise in the blinds with 2 pair predraw, drawing one and betting out after the draw when they draw 3. Too often (and they rarely realize what you're doing until it's too late), they think you're on the draw and bluffing. But even if they improve to a better hand (trips to your aces up, for example), they won't raise because they fear you've made a pat hand. Maniacs shrivel in the face of controlled aggression.

Sorry for the thread hijack. Carry on.

Re: 5 Card Draw Maniac
 

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Favorite heads-up/maniac move: Smooth calling his raise in the blinds with 2 pair predraw, drawing one and betting out after the draw when they draw 3. Too often (and they rarely realize what you're doing until it's too late), they think you're on the draw and bluffing. But even if they improve to a better hand (trips to your aces up, for example), they won't raise because they fear you've made a pat hand. Maniacs shrivel in the face of controlled aggression.

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i normally get guys who are too passive heads up not maniacs

i guess a maniac probably wont notice but a decent player might observe that you struggle to disguise this position - not that i have an issue with say playing a missed draw this way but i'm not sure i need fancy against a maniac heads up

i agree that some aggro against a maniac is a good plan and i respect this line as an option but i pretty much never find it

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

Re: 5 Card Draw Maniac
 

In Limit poker it is not easy to isolate someone - sometimes the marginal hands you play against a maniac you eventualy lose to a legit third party.
I think the way to handle it is position instead - specially in 5-draw. Whenever you act after the maniac you have a strong advantage and you can profit - folding or re-raising. Leave one guy between you and him and take all his money on the long run. Leave and re-join the table if possible to take a better seat.

This is also valid in Pot Limit - but it is easier to isolate or get out when another player shows he is strong and willing to chase the maniac.

Re: 5 Card Draw Maniac
 

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In Limit poker it is not easy to isolate someone - sometimes the marginal hands you play against a maniac you eventualy lose to a legit third party.

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hmmm ... 3 betting means someone else(big blind) has to cold call at least 2 bets or cap to play. So it is actually quite easy to isolate someone who bets too much predraw, you 3 bet them. As for marginal hands, I am talking about high pairs at min, AA KK QQ(depends how nuts). You dont want to give the rest of the table implied odds to play everything, you want to take this guys money. If the nutball is to your left it becomes more difficult. Money flows clockwise from fish to talent in general, so table position is just as important as table selection. Having said that, if he is truely insane you have the ability to CR the whole table postdraw. As you said reraise or fold, are you planning on folding QQ to this guy? Obviously you can't isolate out of position ... so what was your point? As for putting 1 person between you ... BB SB is great against a maniac if you have the will to call him down every time he bluffs his flush draw, or his 22A draw 2. When ever you are playing a fish you want to be in as many hands with him as possible while going in ahead. so the BB SB war is just what you want, you get into a ton of hands where you have position after the draw. If you leave a good player between you that guy will take most of his money(money flow). I used to like weak tight players heads up, because I could dictate the action and steal blinds a lot. But as I have improved I find myself likeing the LAG fish better, he gives me money faster and he plays higher stakes. Ehh ... but whatever works for you I guess.

Re: 5 Card Draw Maniac
 

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Favorite heads-up/maniac move: Smooth calling his raise in the blinds with 2 pair predraw, drawing one and betting out after the draw when they draw 3. Too often (and they rarely realize what you're doing until it's too late), they think you're on the draw and bluffing. But even if they improve to a better hand (trips to your aces up, for example), they won't raise because they fear you've made a pat hand. Maniacs shrivel in the face of controlled aggression.

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I have to say that I prefer to reraise alot more predraw, and depending on the player you either call his bluff or value bet marginal hands. Against some ppl I will bet AA postdraw(on a read, some ppl call with anything). I only like to slow play it with strong hands AAxx KKxx trips or better where I can checkraise the moron postdraw. And only when I am sure he will be continuation betting his draw 3, so that is fairly rare. But some ppl you can induce a bet after the draw by checking, almost every time. I dont like the choice of hand either, this play works better with AA or KK drawing 3 and betting out, or I usually prefer to check call with high pair. I mean your advantage over this guy is that he "value bets" crap and bluffs way too much, so use that against him. He will find you calling his 1 draw bluff with 88 at some point and get very very frustrated.