Call of off-tempo push by the shortie?
 

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (10 handed) converter

CO (t12688)
Button (t19034)
SB (t12522)
BB (t33755)
UTG (t10813)
UTG+1 (t19368)
UTG+2 (t7852)
MP1 (t37847)
Hero (t15638)
MP3 (t16203)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of t400.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls t800, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t3200</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls t2400.

Flop: (t7600) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets t4602</font>, Hero...

No read on my opponent, as I'm newly moved to the table and he's an unknown.

Is this a call? Is this a fold? Why?

If I call and lose, I'm down to 8k in chips and blinds are moments from 500/1000 with 75 ante.

It has been my experience that these off-tempo pushes are usually a weak hand, but in this case, second pair is very possible. And second pair has me beat.

What is the decision process a player should go through in these types of situations?

-Scott

Re: Call of off-tempo push by the shortie?
 

Well, obviously the first thing you can do is try to put your opponent on a range of hands. What hands are you way ahead of? Bottom pair (say he has A5), or a lower pocker pair. What hands are you ahead of? Overcards or a flush draw, but you're only ahead 2:1 (very roughly.) Any higher PP, ten, king, or pocket 5s is dominating you. I think more often you are going to see a T or K here than you will a hand that you're beating. Lay this one down.

Re: Call of off-tempo push by the shortie?
 

i think thats a fold, it's not gonna be a total bluff very often i dont think, and as you said, 2nd pair beats you.

Re: Call of off-tempo push by the shortie?
 

I'd lay it down unless I had a real extraordinary read or lapse of memory - cause my gut instinct is to walk away in a heartbeat.

RB

Re: Call of off-tempo push by the shortie?
 

I fold. I have looked people up in similar situations and almost always got shown at least middle pair. Draw is possible but I don't think the odds are good enough to call here.

Re: Call of off-tempo push by the shortie?
 

You are getting almost 3-1 on your money to call. If I am villain, I push with anything. At worst you have 2 outs. I think you are pot committed to call.

Re: Call of off-tempo push by the shortie?
 

Why not call preflop?
Hit the 9 or fold after flop.
When you raised him he had half his stack in the pot, the only move he had to win it was to go all in after flop which you werent prepared for.
You should of put him allin if you decided to raise him, it should scare off the others and you are guaranteed to see all five cards.
if you lose the showdown you still have around 8k anyway or if he folds preflop you pockets around 2k.
EDIT: folding has it advantages coz you wouldnt be putting yourself in a 55:45 against overcards.

Re: Call of off-tempo push by the shortie?
 

fold with the 2 overcards on the board. if villain had QJ or 2 spades, then good for him. fold.

Re: Call of off-tempo push by the shortie?
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold with the 2 overcards on the board. if villain had QJ or 2 spades, then good for him. fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your putting in 27% of the pot and you have a 10% chance of winning if villain has a higher pair. I think you are pot committed. Villain was also pot committed and should push with anything. This could easily be a stop and go.

Re: Call of off-tempo push by the shortie?
 

Finally a voice of reason in the crowd.

I called pretty quickly. He's going to stop n go with almost anything here as he's desperate. And he limp-called from early position, which tends to mean a small pair.

If he had top pair, he'd check-raise me all-in. If he had a set, he'd check-raise me all in.

When he pushes in to me, he doesn't want a call. So he's not going to play that way with many of the hands that beat me. If he has a big hand, he wants to double up, not scoop whats in the pot now. Remember this people.

Why is this a call?
1. I'm getting better than 3-1 on the call.
2. I have a real hand.
3. My opponent is desperate.
4. His out-of-tempo push screams weakness. (marginal pair, draw, or pure bluff)

Yea sometimes he's going to turn over a hand with a T and I'm beaten.

Anyway I call, he turned over 66 and MHIG.

-Scott