flush draw plus pair...help me
 

Party 3/6

Just sat down so no reads.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button calls.

Turn: (6.16 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (8.16 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.16 BB

Do I lead turn? Call river? There may be a standard play for this but I've been questioning everything lately.

Re: flush draw plus pair...help me
 

If you're not going to lead the turn, you shouldn't cap the flop. I would call down after the flop 3-bet, planning to c/r if I hit. Even given the way you played it, you should still be calling this river against an unknown.

Re: flush draw plus pair...help me
 

the flop c/r is completely standard.

capping the flop and checking the turn is bogus. it's inconsistent.

if we assume you never get a free card out of this cap (it's close to never - someone showing this aggression is surely going to bet the turn when you check), then the flop/turn play is inconsistent. we have 14 outs vs. an overpair/top pair. so unless you think he is 3-betting your flop check raise a good amount with a worse hand than your pair of sixes, it isn't for value. and by checking the turn you give up any fold equity you bought on the flop.

Re: flush draw plus pair...help me
 

I've been wondering about this same situation lately. On the flop we've got over 50% equity so I don't see how we can't cap it. Being OOP in this situation is the only disadvantage to capping, but in terms of equity it's a must, no? I agree that the rest of the hand is awkward after we do so. So, how do we reconcile the equity edge plus position?

Hmmm.... actually, by just calling the 3 bet PF, and check/calling the turn, it's about the same as capping PF WP and taking a free turn in these situations.

Thoughts?

Re: flush draw plus pair...help me
 

The turn check is obvious. With the flop cap, it depends on the range on which you put the bettor. Since he's unknown, he could have a decent range after 3-betting the flop (and the steal-i-ness). AA-TT, two large clubs, AT-JT even, 66, and 55, maybe 87s? I think we have a slight deficit here (given the higher clubs killing us) and we're not often stealing on the turn/river from a better hand, so I'd just as soon call the three-bet.

Re: flush draw plus pair...help me
 

i prefer the 3bet and c-c turn line here. if you spike a 6 or 8 as well as a club, you can turn the c-c in to a c/r.

Re: flush draw plus pair...help me
 

Whatever you do on the turn, not capping this flop is EV-. Against an unknown id cap and lead turn. If he raises turn id call and fold river unimproved

Re: flush draw plus pair...help me
 

Thanks for the replies. Next time I won't puss out on the turn.

Re: flush draw plus pair...help me
 

[ QUOTE ]

capping the flop and checking the turn is bogus. it's inconsistent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%, and this sort of heads up line (apeshit aggro out of position on the flop, check the turn) has been pretty common in this board lately and notice it is ALWAYS when hero has a draw. very transparent.

Re: flush draw plus pair...help me
 

Unless EV- is different that Negative EV that is an incorrect statement. You may be missing out on some extra EV by not capping it but to not cap it is definately not -EV. I know I am splitting hairs with terms here but I don't want new guys coming into the forum being confused with some very essential concepts.