Last Nights Omaha Coverage
 

TERRIBLE.

Those guys I don't think know anything about omaha.

The way lon announced the hand - He has A high- couple of Hearts. Umm - the other 2 cards are also important.
Or he has a pair of kings. Really? what about the suited QJ to go with em?


One of them gasped when a guy folded a naked AK preflop.

And neither of them could believe it when Max folded top 2 - Aces and 8s on an A87 board, with 2 clubs I believe. He had 2 pair and no redraw. Its an easy fold, and those guys were amazed.

Needless to say - I've had a great day at my Omaha tables today [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

WOnder why?

Re: Last Nights Omaha Coverage
 

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And neither of them could believe it when Max folded top 2 - Aces and 8s on an A87 board, with 2 clubs I believe. He had 2 pair and no redraw. Its an easy fold, and those guys were amazed.



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Please explain this to me. Are you worried about trips or the flush draw? If I remember correctly he folded the 2 pair in an unraised pot. I did not understand the fold. Btw, I have never played Omaha.

Re: Last Nights Omaha Coverage
 

The problem is not that they don't understand Omaha. The problem is they don't understand poker. I have yet to see them mention the pot size and how it affects a player's decision, for example.

Or maybe it's not a problem, as you indicated in your final remark [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

Re: Last Nights Omaha Coverage
 

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And neither of them could believe it when Max folded top 2 - Aces and 8s on an A87 board, with 2 clubs I believe. He had 2 pair and no redraw. Its an easy fold, and those guys were amazed.



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Please explain this to me. Are you worried about trips or the flush draw? If I remember correctly he folded the 2 pair in an unraised pot. I did not understand the fold. Btw, I have never played Omaha.

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It was not a raised pot, but there was a bet ahead of him on the flop and another player still to act.

At this point, at most he is slightly ahead, at worst, he is way behind.

If he is slightly ahead in the hand, alsmost any card other than an 8 or an Ace will be a scare card to him on the flop.

Any clubs- the flush.

Any 4,5,6,9,T,J - the straight.

Any Q,K - either a better 2 pair, or a set.

Any 7 - trips or the boat.
The remaining 2s and 3s that aren't clubs are the only true blanks in the deck here.


he hasn't invested too much into this pot yet, so there is no reason to try and go broke with 2 pair in a 3-way unraised pot.

FWIW - Josh played that hand pretty good. Straight wrap and flush draw

Re: Last Nights Omaha Coverage
 

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Those guys I don't think know anything about omaha.


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The funny thing also is that I believe I heard Norm Chad say during one of last years broadcasts that he was playing in a PLO cash game at the Bellagio the night before or something like that.

Re: Last Nights Omaha Coverage
 

Thanks for the reply. I think I heard somewhere that Omaha is a game of having the best draw, I guess your hand analysis shows that to be true.

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I disagree with the fold, all those scare cards may make your opponents hand, most of them however won't, even if he has the flush draw and an open ended straight draw alot of those cards you mention arn't outs. Instead of folding I would raise, that way if he only held a flush draw he would not be getting odds to call, but if there was a reraise you could be certain you were up against a set.

Was the play 3 handed or were there just 3 people involved in the pot? In 3 handed play I would never fold top 2 to only one pot bet without some kickass tell.

Not excactly an omaha player but this is my opinion.

Independent of all that, looking only at the results, should he actually have folded? What was he up against?

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Was the play 3 handed or were there just 3 people involved in the pot? In 3 handed play I would never fold top 2 to only one pot bet without some kickass tell.

Not excactly an omaha player but this is my opinion.

Independent of all that, looking only at the results, should he actually have folded? What was he up against?

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I believe the table was more than 3 handed - the hand just had 3 people in it.

Also Josh had 569x - with 2 clubs in there, so he would have been very hard to shake.

YOu can raise, but a fold is not depolorable. we also don't know chip stacks to know how comitted he would have had to been once he raised.

Top 2 in omaha can be deadly.

Re: Last Nights Omaha Coverage
 

Hell, bottom set can be deadly.

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I understood folding the two pair on the A,8,7 board. But, I thought it was a situation where he could call on the flop and make a pot-sized raise on the turn if a non-threatening card came.

He had every reason to believe top-two was the best hand on the flop.

Re: Last Nights Omaha Coverage
 

They know something, but they did make a few fundamental errors.

In general, they seemed properly focused on coordinated hands with multiple positive features. They're not expert commentators and I'm glad for it. I don't really want everyone knowing how to play the game well. I agree that did think 2 good hold em hands made a good omaha hand which might not be true until you're heads up and even then it's questionable--might only be playable.

The AK hand was retarded.

Top 2 is generally considered a strong hand, particulary when no str8s or flushes are possible. You can take some heat with it and dish out some heat with it. Particularly in the aggressive style being played at that final table, top 2 was strong.

Honestly, I'm happy to see top tournament omaha play at all.

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Can someone a little more savvy at Omaha than me explain Ferguson's final call? I was like "he has a 10-high flush draw, this just can't be right." I'm sure I must have missed something.

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If I remember correctly, he had decent pot odds and nowhere else to to go, completely pot committed.

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If I remember correctly, he had decent pot odds and nowhere else to to go, completely pot committed.

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First, Ferguson raised all-in and Arieh called.

When the hand started, I think Ferguson had between 20% to 33% of the chips on the table. He raised pre-flop. Then, Arieh bet out on the flop. Feguson seemed to believe his flush outs were good and would often have outs to a King or 9.

Re: Last Nights Omaha Coverage
 

I'm sure your recollection is better than mine, but did he have enough chips to get a fold from Arieh on the flop? This may have been a case where lack of stack sizes led me astray, but my impression was that Ferguson might as well have been calling all-in since Arieh was pot-committed. Unlike David Sklansky, however, I could be wrong.

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Another stupid comment was made by McEachern.

I forget who it was but they held something like K567 on a board of 58Q or something, and somebody bet into them, they called, and Lon was like "He's going to ....call? this? He has a.........pair of 5's?........(silence for a while).

Norm: "........................yes...... well, he also has an open-ended straight draw......Lon."

Lon: "InDEEEEEEED HE DOESSSSSSSSSS! There goes the BURRRRRRRN CARRRRRRRD!!!!"

Truly awful.

Re: Last Nights Omaha Coverage
 

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Those guys I don't think know anything about omaha.


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The funny thing also is that I believe I heard Norm Chad say during one of last years broadcasts that he was playing in a PLO cash game at the Bellagio the night before or something like that.

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yep, he was pissed becuase one of the crew (I believe fishman) sat down, won a big pot and then left - hit and run.