QQ with Overcard Flop - What\'s the play?
 

30/60 game with mix of rocks and mediocre players.

I am in MP with QQ. A solid rock raises UTG, I call, button calls - 3 to the flop.

Flop: A K 10 (rainbow)

UTG bets, I call, button calls.

Turn: Q

What's the play?

My play and results to follow.

Re: QQ with Overcard Flop - What\'s the play?
 

OK, you're probably way way behind on this flop. I seriously doubt an AKT flop missed a rock who raised under the gun. You have four outs to a one-card nut straight and two outs to a set of Queens. Your gutshot outs are tainted by a possible split + redraws for AA/KK/AK. Your Queen outs are tainted by the same redraws + they put a four-card Broadway on the board + your set may be dead to the rock's AA/KK. Does anyone else think this looks like an easy fold on the flop? I think this looks 10x as foldable since you didn't three-bet your QQ pre-flop which tells me you're giving serious consideration to the rock having AA/KK. I don't think you'd be trying to "trap" a rock with QQ, especially with people still to act behind you.

You hit your Queen on the turn which is nice but unless you can successfully represent a Jack and scare your opponents out, I think you want a cheap showdown. I don't believe your hand can stand much raising.

SpaceAce

Re: QQ with Overcard Flop - What\'s the play?
 

Space, excellent analysis. It was probably a fold, but the rock has sometimes (though seldom) mixed his play up in the past by raising 7/8 suited. So, just in case, I did make one call. Very marginal call, I know.

Turn play is forthcoming.

Re: QQ with Overcard Flop - What\'s the play?
 

Did you consider 3-betting pre-flop? I understand the UTG raiser is a rock and could have you beat, but I think a 3-bet here is mandatory to try to get the hand heads up, plus you would have position.

Flop - If you would have raised it preflop, I think having QQ here with this board is easy to fold. If UTG checks to you, you bet. If raised I let it go. You have 6 outs, 2 (other Q's) could be dead to a J, however I don't see tight UTG raising with a AJ - only JJ.

Overall it's a horrible flop for you, but I think you should 3-bet preflop to try to get the hand heads up and play accordingly.

Re: QQ with Overcard Flop - What\'s the play?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Space, excellent analysis. It was probably a fold, but the rock has sometimes (though seldom) mixed his play up in the past by raising 7/8 suited. So, just in case, I did make one call. Very marginal call, I know.


Turn play is forthcoming.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do rocks really raise 7-8 pre-flop? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: QQ with Overcard Flop - What\'s the play?
 

MrGo, I did consider a 3-bet, however, I know the button and I have seen him play most buttons with UTG raises, so I assumed he would play his button, even with a 3-bet. That's why I did not re-raise. Another situation, most likely I would have 3-bet.

Re: QQ with Overcard Flop - What\'s the play?
 

Roy, yes, I have seen him raise once with 7/8s and 6/4s in EP during the last year.

Re: QQ with Overcard Flop - What\'s the play?
 

Wouldn't you want to get your money in when you're probably ahead of the button pre-flop? Is the only reason you didn't 3-bet is because of the button's tendancy to call when UTG raises? It somewhat sounds you played your QQ's preflop like QKs.

I'm not berating your play, just stating my view!

Re: QQ with Overcard Flop - What\'s the play?
 

MrGO, point well taken.

Results:
 

Results:

After the turn Q: UTG bets, I raise, button folds, UTG calls.

River: Brick

UTG checks, I bet, UTG folds.

When I turn over my hand, UTG says that he threw away the best hand: 3 Ks.

Would most players throw away 3 Ks here for one bet?

Clearly, I represented the J for the straight with the re-raise, but I'm curious as to how many would actually not make the call on the river.

Thanks