Re: Question about hand ranges & equity (calling vs. raising, yada yad
 

I dunno, Lori. The difference between being suited and unsuited is pretty important, even in NL. The difference is comparable to TT vs. 77 (not vs. each other, of course).

Re: Question about hand ranges & equity (calling vs. raising, yada yad
 

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Okay. I was hoping for more, but if that's it, so be it.

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How about this: I play the 11s and 22s, and it is not surprising at all for people to call with random aces, especially late in the game. When Donkey McDonkerstien calls my bet with A9, I don't want to be chasing kings or queens.

It goes back to what Lori was saying about playing the other guy's range. There may be an argument to be made for betting with KQs vs. KQo, but a slight equity advantage over 1000 situations isn't really enough for me to give up my love affair with the bullet.

Re: Question about hand ranges & equity (calling vs. raising, yada yad
 

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Okay. I was hoping for more, but if that's it, so be it.

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How about this: I play the 11s and 22s, and it is not surprising at all for people to call with random aces, especially late in the game. When Donkey McDonkerstien calls my bet with A9, I don't want to be chasing kings or queens.

It goes back to what Lori was saying about playing the other guy's range. There may be an argument to be made for betting with KQs vs. KQo, but a slight equity advantage over 1000 situations isn't really enough for me to give up my love affair with the bullet.

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Oh, no no no. Dismissing slight equity edges is an enormous mistake. In fact, the difference between a losing player and a 20% ROI is identifying these slight equity edges. Literally. Over 1000 hands being suited will win you 40 extra hands. That's hardly too slight to ignore.

Incidentally, I just recalculated it, and KQs is better than ATo for a tight calling range. ATo is better for a looser calling range, since more weak A's will be involved.

Re: Question about hand ranges & equity (calling vs. raising, yada yad
 

I think you guys underestimate the strength of suited hands in SnG's.

For example (checked with SNGPT) if there are 6 players left, you are in CO, 1000 chip game. You have 1000 chips and the players behind you cover you and are pretty tight. (the details are not important here), you can push: Push hands: 22+,A2+,K7o+,K2s+,Q8o+,Q4s+,J8o+,J6s+,T8o+,T6s+,98 o,96s+,86s+,76s,65s (45%)

The range includes 65s! That means 65s is better than K6o.

Re: Question about hand ranges & equity (calling vs. raising, yada yad
 

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Oh, no no no. Dismissing slight equity edges is an enormous mistake. In fact, the difference between a losing player and a 20% ROI is identifying these slight equity edges. Literally. Over 1000 hands being suited will win you 40 extra hands. That's hardly too slight to ignore.

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Indeed. Perhaps this knowledge will help make a difference between a 12 and 20 percent ROI. ^_^

So is it too early to ask which you prefer? It sounds to me like you're advocating the equity edge of KQ.

Re: Question about hand ranges & equity (calling vs. raising, yada yad
 

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I think you guys underestimate the strength of suited hands in SnG's.

For example (checked with SNGPT) if there are 6 players left, you are in CO, 1000 chip game. You have 1000 chips and the players behind you cover you and are pretty tight. (the details are not important here), you can push: Push hands: 22+,A2+,K7o+,K2s+,Q8o+,Q4s+,J8o+,J6s+,T8o+,T6s+,98 o,96s+,86s+,76s,65s (45%)

The range includes 65s! That means 65s is better than K6o.

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Thank you, Don. Always helps when I'm not the only one saying it.

Re: Question about hand ranges & equity (calling vs. raising, yada yad
 

The original poster specifically mentioned that we were talking about raises in general, not just pushes.

Lori

Re: Question about hand ranges & equity (calling vs. raising, yada yad
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Oh, no no no. Dismissing slight equity edges is an enormous mistake. In fact, the difference between a losing player and a 20% ROI is identifying these slight equity edges. Literally. Over 1000 hands being suited will win you 40 extra hands. That's hardly too slight to ignore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed. Perhaps this knowledge will help make a difference between a 12 and 20 percent ROI. ^_^

So is it too early to ask which you prefer? It sounds to me like you're advocating the equity edge of KQ.

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Depends on the range. Which, I think, depends on the position of your raise. Perhaps this one example is poor for SNGs. If I were to apply to a MTT, I think raising with KQs from MP (or pushing from there) would likely be better than ATo. However, from the button, ATo would be better. This is due to the fact that the calling ranges will be different.

Again, this one example shouldn't drastically affect play. It's more of a theoretical question, as I'm in the process of reevaluating my game.

Re: Question about hand ranges & equity (calling vs. raising, yada yad
 

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The original poster specifically mentioned that we were talking about raises in general, not just pushes.

Lori

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Yes, but I think his point is applicable.

Re: Question about hand ranges & equity (calling vs. raising, yada yad
 

And so finally:

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Depends on the range.

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