JJ - Really Tough Spot
 

Button is absolutely retarded, 85/20 and makes some of the worst plays in history, including some hopeless bluffs
UTG is pretty loose passive - 50/6/.8 over a sample of about 60 hands

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, SB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, UTG calls.

River: (9 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, UTG calls, Hero [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

This seems like a pretty awful spot to be in on the river.

Re: JJ - Really Tough Spot
 

Fold the river the first time. If you can't do that, then you don't really have much reason not to call the second time.

Re: JJ - Really Tough Spot
 

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Fold the river the first time. If you can't do that, then you don't really have much reason not to call the second time.

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I hate this advice, we're not folding this river the first time. Any pocket pair could be getting excited.

Re: JJ - Really Tough Spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold the river the first time. If you can't do that, then you don't really have much reason not to call the second time.

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I hate putting in 2 bets on the river when I am behind. I think that would be an extremely difficult fold to make the first time. You are right though, in that given that UTG just called, I think my chances of being ahead are actually better.

Hmmm.. maybe a poll is in order

Re: JJ - Really Tough Spot
 

i voted fold the second time, and then i looked closer and saw:

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Button is absolutely retarded, 85/20 and makes some of the worst plays in history, including some hopeless bluffs

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it makes me wonder about calling a second time [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: JJ - Really Tough Spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Fold the river the first time. If you can't do that, then you don't really have much reason not to call the second time.

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I hate this advice, we're not folding this river the first time. Any pocket pair could be getting excited.

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Exactly. Call/call and cry.

Re: JJ - Really Tough Spot
 

I think it's a pretty easy fold.

EDIT: I didn't look at the river action very closely, it's not an easy fold, but it's probably +EV to fold the river the second time.

Re: JJ - Really Tough Spot
 

"A better can be bluffing, A called usally is not"

Due to UTG there, i think you need to lay this down.

without UTG, I call it.

However i'm usually check calling this river to induce bluffs with my read on button and to not get raised in a big pot.

Re: JJ - Really Tough Spot
 

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However i'm usually check calling this river to induce bluffs with my read on button and to not get raised in a big pot.

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That option was not available to me

Re: JJ - Really Tough Spot
 

I am torn between folding the second time and calling the raise. There is no way im folding the first time as any PP will bet that river.

I'm sure if that was me in the hand i'd call the second time around especially given the read on the Button. Then again I have been paying off really bad lately.