how about this?
 

MP2 is a flake, caller is unknown. Am i missing value on this flop??


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (9.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

Re: how about this?
 

3 bet the flop.

Melch

Re: how about this?
 

I think you missed a bet on the flop.

Re: how about this?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am i missing value on this flop??

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. Same as before: the pot is already big enough, and it's no time to be slowplaying. Especially when MP2 is raising with a draw a good percentage of the time, and will take his free card on the turn fairly often when you go for the check/raise (or the turn will bring a scare card that causes him to check through with his 66 or whatever weaker made hand he raised with). But even when he's a flake, that just makes it all the more likely that the rest of the field will come along for the ride when you 3-bet the flop, many of them drawing to nothing more than runner runner.

EDIT: For the record, this is something that I struggled with a great deal in the past, and still do from time to time now. You just need to try and drive FPS moves out of your brain while playing full ring, SS games--the times when it's better to use advanced moves like this are so rare that it's not really worth worrying about (specifically, in a HU pot vs. a thinking TAG opponent; and even then, it's often correct to take the ABC line simply because he's more likely to expect a slowplay from a big hand).

Re: how about this?
 

Raise the flop. Heads up this line is sometimes ok, multiway it's silly and costs you money.

Re: how about this?
 

After being drawn out on so many times lately I'm constantly thinking of how to better protect my hand and get people to fold in big pots, unless I have something huge like a full house or a big flush draw. It is overshadowing the goal of maximizing value. I do value bet relentlessly, but I have trouble value raising into a million people in places like this. I feel "im just making the pot bigger and giving people correct odds to chase" Is there a specific part of any 2+2 book I should read that addresses this issue?