Two Plus Two Older Archives - 6 max hand

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- - 6 max hand - 55 (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=375488)

Sup Y'all,

I see a lot of 6 max posts where aggression levels are questioned, so I figured I'd post one where I kept the pedal down. I dont know if this will be standard or not, micro is more advanced than when I was here that's for sure.

UTG is VERY loose. VERY. like 80% VP$IP. no precise convergence of PT stats but this guy is a limping MACHINE. aggro factor of like 1, so he will definitely bet. no specific read on how he handles draws versus small pairs versus monsters etc.

CO and Button are pretty tight, Button is the more aggro of the two in the face of aggression, CO tends to push his hands but when you push back he respeckts. booyakasha.

anyways this hand had a lot of stuff going on.

Party Poker (6 max, 6 handed) (1/2 Blind structure) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (8.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

MHIG

Re: 6 max hand - 55

Standard [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 6 max hand - 55

I'm diggin' the first three streets. I'm not at a point where I'd be raising 55 preflop like that, but I could see it being +EV. At the river, I'd probably check. This guy is clearly a special kind of donk, but 4 flush boards are hard for even the dummest morans to ignore. The K didn't exactly make him want to call with whatever pair he had on the flop, either, unless he's got K's up or a wonky, poorly played straight.

Thanks for dropping into the micros again. I'm sure these guys won't disappoint.

Re: 6 max hand - 55

yeah with loose players behind me I might fold it preflop, with the tight ones behind me I wanted to try to play against this dude as much as possible

I do think the river is thin but I have noticed myself missing a lot of value bets so I've forced myself to take really thin ones against ppl who aren't likely to bluff raise. some have worked, some have made me look really dumb [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 6 max hand - 55

Fold it? With a couple of loosey gooseys behind me, I'd probably limp it. Actually, at the level you're playing at, the loosey gooseys are more likely to be 50/30 rather than 50/3. In my world, it's a pretty easy limp.

Re: 6 max hand - 55

yeah there might even be some spots where you can limp UTG in the 50/3 kind of games, similar to Ed's old preflop quiz where he advocates a 33 limp in MP2 in loose games, even though it runs specifically counter to the advice in HPFAP.

you're right though even here I'd have to limp it, it doesn't go raise-3bet THAT often. 3+ way a lot of the time, sometimes for a raise, seems ok to me.

Re: 6 max hand - 55

[ QUOTE ]
anyways this hand had a lot of stuff going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was a good hand to post.

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker (6 max, 6 handed) (1/2 Blind structure) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, UTG calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty standard. Even though UTG is very loose and might have limped a hand with an 8 in it, your read suggests that he might be able to bet hands like Q4s or T3s (he's 80% VPIP, so he's playing LOTS of suited things), maybe a flush/straight draw, or perhaps just two overcards. Raising will also help protect against overcards behind you.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (6.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is interesting. You raised the flop because you potentially had the best hand. Now you've got a pretty good draw to go with your hand. I think a reasonable argument can be made for betting and for checking. I won't make the argument right now because it's worth letting everyone else think about it for a while.

[ QUOTE ]
River: (8.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if I like this bet so much. Since it's less interesting than the turn bet, I'll go ahead and spell out my thoughts.

Since he bet-called the flop and called your turn bet, it's reasonable to think that he's either on a pair or a draw. If he was on a draw, it's very likely that he made it. If he had a straight draw, he either paired up (76, 65) or made his straight (52, 75). If he had a flush draw on the flop, I would have expected him to donk or check-raise the turn when it came in.

However, he might have had something like two overcards and picked up a flush draw on the turn (he bet the flop hoping to push you out of the pot, called the raise because that's what players do, and then check-called after picking up the flush draw). He may not bet/raise with the flush on the river fearing that you have the ace of flush.

What hands are going to call you here? Well... it's really tough to say. He may call the river with ace high or any pair because he's curious and doesn't want to be bluffed. Or he may only call with a stronger pair (like a pair of kings on the river).

I'd rather check behind and make him show down his hand (instead of giving him a chance to fold) because I would like more information about how he plays, and this information comes at the expense of only a relatively small portion of a bet (because I don't know how weak of a hand he might call with). If I already knew he would call with just a pair, this becomes an autobet. I'm basically too afraid of giving extra money to a hand that contains a weak heart like 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] without knowing that I'll get more than my fair share in return when he calls with a junk hand. The 5-high one card flush simply isn't that great.

I would optimistically call it +EV to bet. A more sober estimate would be "slightly +EV". I do think it's somewhat thin and I would rather check behind to gain information (those times when he doesn't call the bet, I lose some information on his play - Did he lead out with weak middle pair, top pair, overcards?). You also lose that information when he check-raises and you're forced to fold (because you're not bet-calling with this hand).

Since I know your hand is good, I would think he called you down with a pair of 8s.

Re: 6 max hand - 55

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

awesome post

Re: 6 max hand - 55

I play it the same every street. Preflop, having those 2 tighties is the only time I'd raise here (which you did so that's good). Otherwise, I'm limping.

Flop/turn standard.

I think given his looseness he's calling pretty much any pair here on the river, and I also think he's betting most hearts.

Re: 6 max hand - 55

I like the first three streets. When it comes to the river I would personally check but thats because I miss tons of value bets on the river. Nice hand.