Curtains hand #4
 

#Game No : 3240160622
***** Hand History for Game 3240160622 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $200 Buy-in + $15 Entry Fee Trny:18482377 Level:5
Blinds(75/150) - Wednesday, December 21, 19:13:05 EDT 2005
Table Table 67034 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 3: curtainz ( $680 )
Seat 4: jusrookie101 ( $1345 )
Seat 6: ALFUEGO ( $1740 )
Seat 8: StraightPair ( $1905 )
Seat 9: vrooyr1 ( $4330 )
Trny:18482377 Level:5
Blinds(75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to curtainz [ 8d 8c ]
>You have options at Table 67805 Table!.
>You have options at Table 68855 Table!.
StraightPair raises [400].
vrooyr1 calls [400].
>You have options at Table 67358 Table!.
>You have options at Table 68777 Table!.
curtainz calls [400].

Is there a reason to cold call here, as opposed to pushing the small amount you have in? Very short, so looking to make a move. Is 88 the spot?

Re: Curtains hand #4
 

he is clearly looking for a stop n go here. Ok so he is last to act on the flop, but im sure hes shoving on *any* flop.

Re: Curtains hand #4
 

Obviously the chips are going in. I'm wondering if a) 88 is optimal 3 handed here... and b) 280 obviously has very little (if any) FE so why just call?

Re: Curtains hand #4
 

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously the chips are going in. I'm wondering if a) 88 is optimal 3 handed here... and b) 280 obviously has very little (if any) FE so why just call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if you push PF, they are both coming along.

If you push the flop, chances are the second to act will call/push and scare off the other guy if he missed.

Re: Curtains hand #4
 

This is kind of interesting. No matter what, I'm playing the hand, so choice is call or push. I see three possible advantages to simply calling:

1.) Invite more players into the pot. If action builds between three villains, you can get out and maybe sneak into third.

2.) Maybe get some FE on the flop (you have none now).

3.) Maybe get out if there's some sort of awful flop and everyone acting before you bets it up.

Re: Curtains hand #4
 

If I made this play it wouldn't be because I was hoping to have FE on the flop -- who's gonna fold for 280 more in a 1425 pot??! - but because I was hoping that my having chips behind would encourage one of the Villains to bet & maybe fold out the other Villain.

Re: Curtains hand #4
 

They're certainly calling a preflop all-in. If they're 95% to call on the flop, that's an improvement. It's also more likely you'll only have to play against one opponent, but that's probably offset by them actually having hit something.

Re: Curtains hand #4
 

hes looking for his opponents to make a mistake on the flop. by pushing PF its 99% likely they wont make one but on the flop there is a chance.

Re: Curtains hand #4
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I made this play it wouldn't be because I was hoping to have FE on the flop -- who's gonna fold for 280 more in a 1425 pot??! - but because I was hoping that my having chips behind would encourage one of the Villains to bet & maybe fold out the other Villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this thinking.

You deny Villains the option of checking it down.

Even if neither of them bets and you bet your last 280t it forces the middle stack player to make a decision with the big stack behind him. He has to hate the possibility of calling and being pushed off the hand. If he does call big stack has the option of conserving a few chips if he hates the flop or pushing middle stack out of the hand.

Does possibly keeping one villain from seeing two free cards outweight the 280t smaller pot you win? With a hand this vulnerable to overcards I would think absolutely.

Learned something new today. Me Likey.

Re: Curtains hand #4
 

this guy vrooyr was not good if I recall. Its also possible that I felt that because he had a giant stack, which often by default means you are a bad player....especially when combined with the cold call. In any case Im so short that its not a time I can be picking and choosing what hands to play.

Re: Curtains hand #4
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I made this play it wouldn't be because I was hoping to have FE on the flop -- who's gonna fold for 280 more in a 1425 pot??! - but because I was hoping that my having chips behind would encourage one of the Villains to bet & maybe fold out the other Villain.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah basically this is true...I wanted to go one on one somehow. Althogh the problem is that if someone bets, they often will have my 88 beaten unless I have a set. But I suppose there are rare times where this wont be the case. Overall I felt like the slightly increased chance of getting headsup was worth the extra 200 chips in case I should have the best hand at the end. I dont think it makes a big difference though.

Re: Curtains hand #4
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I made this play it wouldn't be because I was hoping to have FE on the flop -- who's gonna fold for 280 more in a 1425 pot??! - but because I was hoping that my having chips behind would encourage one of the Villains to bet & maybe fold out the other Villain.

[/ QUOTE ]


nh...hadn't really ever thought of that.

Re: Curtains hand #4
 

btw there is also the chance that Im behind but it gets checked down and I save 280 chips. For example lets say the flop comes AK5 and they have QQ+JJ. Good chances it gets checked all the way to the river, and those 280 chips have serious value.

Just felt like there were a lot of rare things that may happen to give flat calling value over moving allin.