Baseball HOF Ballot...Anybody Getting In This Year???
 

Rick Aguilera, Albert Belle, Bert Blyleven, Will Clark, Dave Concepcion, Andre Dawson, Gary DiSarcina, Alex Fernandez, Gary Gaetti, Steve Garvey, Dwight Gooden, Rich Gossage, Ozzie Guillen, Orel Hershiser, Gregg Jefferies, Tommy John, Doug Jones, Don Mattingly, Willie McGee, Hal Morris, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Jim Rice, Lee Smith, Bruce Sutter, Alan Trammell, Walt Weiss, John Wetteland


Yikes. I think Sutter and possibly Gossage are the only guys deserving, although Tommy John should be recognized for his contributions to the game (if not his on-the-field numbers) somehow.

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i read on espn that some of the pre-steroid guys (as if anyone knows that for sure) may get a bump since their numbers don't have to 'compete' with raffy, giambi, et al.

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Alan Trammell absolutely should get in, along with Bert Blyleven. I like Gossage and Bruce Sutter. Albert Belle? Will Clark? They wouldn't be the worst inductions...

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Alan Trammell absolutely should get in, along with Bert Blyleven. I like Gossage and Bruce Sutter. Albert Belle? Will Clark? They wouldn't be the worst inductions...

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I think Belle has a pretty slim to none chance with the skepticism surrounding steroids from the mid-90s now. Clark did hit a HR off of Nolan in his first major league at bat, which should be an automatic qualifier for the Hall.

I agree about Blyleven and Trammell. Trammell has pretty similar WARP numbers and career OPS numbers to Ripken, with about 1/10th of the hype. The fact that Sandberg got in bodes well for him I think.

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I would vote for Blyleven, Trammell, and Jim Rice.

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surprised nobody has said Andre Dawson yet. When I read the list (and no, I can't quote lifetime stats), Dawson was the player who I thought would get the most consideration.

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surprised nobody has said Andre Dawson yet. When I read the list (and no, I can't quote lifetime stats), Dawson was the player who I thought would get the most consideration.

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he and dale murphy I have soft spots for. growing up in arizona...wtbs and wgn were the only baseball i got...those guys were both fun as hell to watch.

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I think this is the year of the reliever. Sutter and Gossage and Negro Leaguers. Blyleven could get the bump too.

The thing about guys like trammell, Rice and Dawson is the seperation between 'all-star' and 'Hall of famer'. I think all three were great players but not transcendant ones, all three were amongst the best at their positions, but never the best (excepting Dawson in '87, Trammell in '87 and Rice in '78). I actually think Rice even making it to this discussion is a little rediculous, but I'm not from New England. If Jim Rice has his career anywhere else, no one's talking about him for HoF.

I've always felt that if the Hall is going to accept guys like this, putting them on an even footing with the Ruths of the game devalues the contributions of the true greats. I'd love to hijack this thread or start a new one with a 'who are the 50 best players of all time' kind of conversation that can separate those guys from their mortal Hall-mates, but I dont want any *'s under my nick.

Gary

Re: Baseball HOF Ballot...Anybody Getting In This Year???
 

I think that the relievers are long overdue, and with a weak crop of hitters, they have a better shot this year. Gossage, Smith and Sutter all should get some serious consideration.
As for the OP's suggestion that Tommy John should be recognized, I think you are slightly off track. I don't think John deserves induction but I think that Dr. Frank Jobe should be inducted as a contributor to the game, an old dormant category that has previously been used primarily to recognize some of baseballs founding fathers.

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Dawson finished behind Sutter and Rice in the voting in 2004, and behind Sutter, Rice, and Gossage in 2005.

My guess is nobody makes it.

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I'm with Andy -- this is a class that's ripe for a complete whiff.

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I really go back and forth on the closers. Right now I am back, and don't think Sutter and Gossage should be HOFers. I would lean more towards Gossage if I had to choose.

With regards to Tramell, he is another that I go back and forth. I view Tramell, Larkin, Sandberg, and Whitaker as all very similar. I think Sandberg is just in, and Whitaker is just out. And yes, I think it was a joke that Whitaker didn't even get 5% of the votes while Sandeberg made it. I can never decide on Tramell and Tramell will ultimately decide the fate of Larkin (although in comparing the two, I'd give a slight edge to Larkin). I guess I'll just put it off for another year.

On the pitchers, I think it is a travis-sham-mockery that Blyleven is not in.

I'm against Rice. Of all the outfielders, I think Dawson has the best case and I would vote for Murphy over Rice. But I'm not going to throw a fit if any of those guys don't make it. Harold Baines will also be a very interesting player to watch over the next decade.

So I guess I would only vote for one player in 2006, and that's Bert Blyleven.

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blyleven needs to be in. he needed to be in years ago.

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Walt Weiss? WTF?

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Walt Weiss? WTF?

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He qualifies to be on the ballot due to the length of his career. He'll get 0 votes this year and will be dropped from next year's ballot.

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surprised nobody has said Andre Dawson yet. When I read the list (and no, I can't quote lifetime stats), Dawson was the player who I thought would get the most consideration.

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I'd really like to see Dawson get in. Due to the weakness of this year's ballot, this might be his best chance.

I grew up in Montreal and was an Expos fan during the Dawson/Raines/Carter years. For a good part of his career, he was a complete player -- he had speed (314 stolen bases for his career), he had power (49 HRs in 1987), and he had great range and a great arm in the outfield.

What hurts his chances is that he didn't reach 500 homers or 3000 hits. However, I firmly believe that he would have reached those milestones if it weren't for the fact that he was playing on gimpy knees for the last half of his career. He played for 20 years, but a good portion of that was at considerably less than 100%. The Olympic Stadium artificial turf did a real number on him.

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The most interesting name in this ballot IMO is Doc Gooden. Clearly he doesn't have the longevity, but does he get a Sandy Koufax type exception, where he was so great that his longevity is irrelevant.

Re: Baseball HOF Ballot...Anybody Getting In This Year???
 

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The most interesting name in this ballot IMO is Doc Gooden. Clearly he doesn't have the longevity, but does he get a Sandy Koufax type exception, where he was so great that his longevity is irrelevant.

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Did you just compnare Gooden to Koufax?

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brett,

the comparison isn't as absurd as you make it out to be. Dwight's '85 was better than anything Koufax did.

Re: Baseball HOF Ballot...Anybody Getting In This Year???
 

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The most interesting name in this ballot IMO is Doc Gooden. Clearly he doesn't have the longevity, but does he get a Sandy Koufax type exception, where he was so great that his longevity is irrelevant.

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Even if you could argue that he would have had HOF numbers had his career been longer, the drug use will keep him out.

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GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Sweet Willie!

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brett,

the comparison isn't as absurd as you make it out to be. Dwight's '85 was better than anything Koufax did.

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Yeah, my reaction was mainly a response to Gooden's "extra curricular" activites, rather than his career. Re; 1985, has anyone had a better year?

I dont' really know enough about either player to say either way, I was just surprised is all.

Re: Baseball HOF Ballot...Anybody Getting In This Year???
 

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brett,

the comparison isn't as absurd as you make it out to be. Dwight's '85 was better than anything Koufax did.

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Yeah, my reaction was mainly a response to Gooden's "extra curricular" activites, rather than his career. Re; 1985, has anyone had a better year?

I dont' really know enough about either player to say either way, I was just surprised is all.

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Pedro in 2000?

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GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Sweet Willie!

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For a second (Just a second, mind you), I thought you called Will Clark "Sweet Willie".

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brett,

the comparison isn't as absurd as you make it out to be. Dwight's '85 was better than anything Koufax did.

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Sorry, but the comparison is absurd.
Gooden had one great year and a handful of other good years.
To get in the hall with a career as short as Koufax had, a player must be truely spectacular. Koufax achieved this by throwing 4 no hittters and allowing only 6 earned runs in 57 IP in world series play. By contrast, Gooden gave up 8 earned runs in 9 IP in his world series appearance.
Koufax career ERA is better by 3 quarters of a run, and most importantly Koufax had his career cut short by circumstances beyond his control. To compare Koufax 12 year career which would have likely been prolonged by modern medicine to Goodens 16 year stint, the latter half of which was mediocre at best, is absurd.
If the HOF inducted players on the basis of one or two great years, then Roger Maris would have made it a long time ago. Gooden has no shot.

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Bert Blyleven has everything on his resume besides WS Rings. That he's not in, and continues to get less run than guys like Jack Morris befuddles me.

Alan Trammell is a victim of being a complete shortstop in the 80s, as opposed to the new complete shortstop of the late 90s/2000s. He's in my top 10 list of all time shortstops.

Rich Gossage is eminently deserving, and has been for some time. Bruce Sutter is slightly less so. Tommy John is below Blyleven, but deserves entry, IMO.

Speaking of Tommy John, when is Dr. Frank Jobe going to get in the Hall? I can't think of one single off the field "incident" that has impacted baseball more than the ligament transplant surgery that Jobe first performed on John. He belongs in the Hall of Fame as a contributor.

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Koufax career ERA is better by 3 quarters of a run

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Gee, that's easy to do when you pitch in the new deadball era.

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I think the WS argument suffers from major sample-size issues.

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I think the WS argument suffers from major sample-size issues.

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No one gets in based on WS numbers alone, but it is a factor that can push an otherwise close decision over the threshold.
In the case of Morris, it takes an otherwise mediocre career and brings it close. Morris biggest weakness is that he would have the worst ERA of any pitcher in the hall, and voters don't want to be viewed as lowering the standards of the hall.

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brett,

the comparison isn't as absurd as you make it out to be. Dwight's '85 was better than anything Koufax did.

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Yeah, my reaction was mainly a response to Gooden's "extra curricular" activites, rather than his career. Re; 1985, has anyone had a better year?

I dont' really know enough about either player to say either way, I was just surprised is all.

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Pedro in 2000?

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Pedro in 1999.

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brett,

the comparison isn't as absurd as you make it out to be. Dwight's '85 was better than anything Koufax did.

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To compare Dwight Gooden to Sandy Koufax is absurd.

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Thank you for your stunning analysis. You are Bill [censored] James. I am convinced.

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Morris wasn't so great. His WS performance was badass, but that alone doesn't make him a HOFer.

My thought is, if you can remove one game from a player's resume and make him look less than HOF-worthy, then he shouldn't get in.

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Morris wasn't so great. His WS performance was badass, but that alone doesn't make him a HOFer.

My thought is, if you can remove one game from a player's resume and make him look less than HOF-worthy, then he shouldn't get in.

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Which of his 254 career wins do you want to take away?

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Morris wasn't so great. His WS performance was badass, but that alone doesn't make him a HOFer.

My thought is, if you can remove one game from a player's resume and make him look less than HOF-worthy, then he shouldn't get in.

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Which of his 254 career wins do you want to take away?

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I'd like to forget that he was ever on the Indians, so you can have those ten.

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HOF voters historically have been impressed by World Series performance. Catfish Hunter and Lefty Gomez are two examples of men who would probably not have made it except for their World Series numbers. If, say, Jim Kaat or Bert Blyleven had won 5-6 World Series games, they'd be in by now.

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HOF voters historically have been impressed by World Series performance.

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And that's why Sweet Willie is destined for the Hall!

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THIS WOULD BE MY BALLOT
[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Bert Blyleven
[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Lee Smith

CLOSE, BUT NO VOTE FROM ME
I COULD BE CONVINCED ON SOME
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Andre Dawson
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Dwight Gooden
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Rich Gossage
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Orel Hershiser
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Jack Morris
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Jim Rice
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Bruce Sutter

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Yup, that .297 OBP is sure to impress.

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FREE RON SANTO!!!