In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

I apologize if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find anything.

My understanding is that Party Beta software does not permit importing observed hands, and that will become the rule eventually.

I've never been a big miner myself, mostly because I've been playing elsewhere. But I'm just curious: are people making any special efforts to datamine at Party in anticipation of this change?

And is there going to be a big market for selling observed hands, in the immediate aftermath of the change, whenever it happens?

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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My understanding is that Party Beta software does not permit importing observed hands, and that will become the rule eventually.


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Is this true?

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

According to what I've read at the Poketracker forum and elsewhere, it is true.

See this thread, for example.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

the current version of the beta does not save observed hands to the local drive and doesn't give the play by play in the chat box - so, yes it appears to be true.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

I still have the the original PP on my comp. anyway to keep it from upgrading?

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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I still have the the original PP on my comp. anyway to keep it from upgrading?

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Once the beta is over - Unlikely

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

GOOD.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

Writing a program which read HH's from what is going on the table (you very easily can read chat or even recognize card images) and then convert it to std HH format is very easy programming task (my friend wrote it in one day for other site when he had his crazy bot ideas). I think dataminers will be quick to get their own program for that.

Best wishes

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

if they are keeping the ability to open tables and continue to pump the hand info to the chat box something can easily be done a la UB hand grabber.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

Well, Dark Knight says here that "the current version of the beta does not save observed hands to the local drive and doesn't give the play by play in the chat box."

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

does anyone know when they plan to release the new sofware?

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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the current version of the beta does not save observed hands to the local drive and doesn't give the play by play in the chat box - so, yes it appears to be true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

I predict a lot of players making good use of the function to change screenname once the changes kick in.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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And is there going to be a big BLACK MARKET for selling observed hands, in the immediate aftermath of the change, whenever it happens?

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You do realize selling HH's is very much against T&C's, no?

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

No,actually I didn't realize that.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

This is the worst news I've heard all year.

Datamining is my first love.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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This is the worst news I've heard all year.

Datamining is my first love.

[/ QUOTE ]

There, there. As far as I know, Party hasn't indicated when this change is going to occur, so enjoy mining while you can.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

Isn't someone developing a program called "supamine"? What's the point if Party Beta is going to make it irrelevant?

John

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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Writing a program which read HH's from what is going on the table (you very easily can read chat or even recognize card images)

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Very easily identify the cards from the image analysis huh? I can program, and i can't think of a way to do this.

PM me the details mate.

Guys - I'm sure there will be ways around it, We'll have to see when the software is released.

The main problem will be POKERACE "mucked cards" no longer displaying... Oh joy... poker gets worse and worse.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

do you guys all realize that if party wanted to they could just say "if you run [name of new mining app] we will shut down your account", its one thing to design a new program but if they want to they will have their way.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Writing a program which read HH's from what is going on the table (you very easily can read chat or even recognize card images)

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Very easily identify the cards from the image analysis huh? I can program, and i can't think of a way to do this.

PM me the details mate.

Guys - I'm sure there will be ways around it, We'll have to see when the software is released.

The main problem will be POKERACE "mucked cards" no longer displaying... Oh joy... poker gets worse and worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this was only and issue for observed HH. If you're actually sitting at the table, they're still giving you your game information so you can keep records.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

So all in all, PT users / data miners won't have a *massive* advantage over everyone else anymore.. just a *large* one. womp womp

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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do you guys all realize that if party wanted to they could just say "if you run [name of new mining app] we will shut down your account", its one thing to design a new program but if they want to they will have their way.

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Can't you open several tables without actually logging in?

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

'Very easily identify the cards from the image analysis huh? I can program, and i can't think of a way to do this.'

Couldn't you just datamine on a second computer and replace all the card images with white fields containing a code that is easily decipherable by software?

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

There are many screen scraping utilities available. The kiddies do it all the time, writing bots for MMORPGs. Reading the cards shown is pretty simple but they still won't get the unshown hole cards.

This isn't something new; it is just going back to the way things were before Party started keeping hand histories on your computer instead of by email only. Hand histories should never have been available for observed hands in the first place.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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'Very easily identify the cards from the image analysis huh? I can program, and i can't think of a way to do this.'

Couldn't you just datamine on a second computer and replace all the card images with white fields containing a code that is easily decipherable by software?

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n1

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

Not being a Beta player, I can only ask this here.

If I'm in a hand, is the history stored on my local hard drive?

Also, you say that dealer chat is not giving a blow-by-blow to the observers? Is it giving any chat at all (summary, winners, starting hand, etc?)

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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do you guys all realize that if party wanted to they could just say "if you run [name of new mining app] we will shut down your account", its one thing to design a new program but if they want to they will have their way.

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Agreed. PokerStars banned the analogous StarSpy and made it stick. Party can easily do the same.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

This is fantastic news. You made my day [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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[ QUOTE ]
do you guys all realize that if party wanted to they could just say "if you run [name of new mining app] we will shut down your account", its one thing to design a new program but if they want to they will have their way.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. PokerStars banned the analogous StarSpy and made it stick. Party can easily do the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are whole books devoted to image analysis. Go to amazon and do a search. This case is really easy since reading pixels is a heck of a lot cleaner than reading photographs.

The value you lose is not seeing losing hands. You can still calculate a bunch of numbers but you can't learn that he calls down with weak aces, semibluffs a lot, and so on...

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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Isn't someone developing a program called "supamine"? What's the point if Party Beta is going to make it irrelevant?

John

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he's already working on a way to get observed hands without reading the .hhf

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Isn't someone developing a program called "supamine"? What's the point if Party Beta is going to make it irrelevant?

John

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he's already working on a way to get observed hands without reading the .hhf

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right, and then party will ban the new supamine program or pahud. if party wants observer mining gone, goddamnit it will be gone.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Isn't someone developing a program called "supamine"? What's the point if Party Beta is going to make it irrelevant?

John

[/ QUOTE ]

he's already working on a way to get observed hands without reading the .hhf

[/ QUOTE ]

right, and then party will ban the new supamine program or pahud. if party wants observer mining gone, goddamnit it will be gone.

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Actually, for the resourceful they'll never be able to prevent screen capture (assuming they would ever intend to). To anticipate, no, they can't prevent you from running an external program because you can always run Party from a virtual machine or terminal and screen capture from the host system. Of course that's too complex for the casual player, but then again, the casual player doesn't really gain anything from data mining in the first place I suppose. So anyway, if they want to remove observer mining they will have to remove observing.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

[ QUOTE ]
'Very easily identify the cards from the image analysis huh? I can program, and i can't think of a way to do this.'

Couldn't you just datamine on a second computer and replace all the card images with white fields containing a code that is easily decipherable by software?

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed, this just sparked so many ideas off [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Time to get coding [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Of course most programs released to the public will get banned, thats why most programmers who release their products will find themselves having to constantly upgrade and redistribute the software they have made to their paying customers(Provided they have offered support I.E. PAHUD).

Thats why i'll never release any software i create ^_^ unless people pay a big price and even then, i wouldn't offer support.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

ok, i will change my statement to "if party wants observer mining gone, goddamnit they will make it infeasible and too much of a pain for 99% of players."

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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ok, i will change my statement to "if party wants observer mining gone, goddamnit they will make it infeasible and too much of a pain for 99% of players."

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Not that it matters. 90+% of the players don't mine anyway (the casual players). Of the 10% remaining, it only takes .1% of them with programming knowledge to decide to sniff the IP packets and write a program that mines on a and displays status on a separate system.

For serious 2+2 types, I doubt requiring a 2nd monitor and system to run mining software and have all the stats will deter them. All this work to prevent datamining really will have a minor impact, particularly if you count hands played.

Say:
90% of hands are by people who don't datamine
5% (the semi-serious players) will give it up
5% (the die-hards) will work around it with a 2nd system

Now, weight that by hands played, the die-hards play waaaay more hands than anyone else. The EXACT demographic that plays the most datamined hands won't be really affected.

So, all this effort only stops a fairly small percentage of played hands from using datamining help. Effort I'd much rather see spent on improved bot and collusion detection, or, god forbid, good customer service.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

"Of the 10% remaining, it only takes .1% of them with programming knowledge to decide to sniff the IP packets and write a program that mines on a and displays status on a separate system."

if this is actually possible I'm never playing online poker again. It almost certainly isn't..

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

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"Of the 10% remaining, it only takes .1% of them with programming knowledge to decide to sniff the IP packets and write a program that mines on a and displays status on a separate system."

if this is actually possible I'm never playing online poker again. It almost certainly isn't..

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Possible? Yea anything is possible. Doable in our lifetime, yea probably. Worth the effort, not likely.

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

[ QUOTE ]
I apologize if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find anything.

My understanding is that Party Beta software does not permit importing observed hands, and that will become the rule eventually.

I've never been a big miner myself, mostly because I've been playing elsewhere. But I'm just curious: are people making any special efforts to datamine at Party in anticipation of this change?

And is there going to be a big market for selling observed hands, in the immediate aftermath of the change, whenever it happens?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. Best move party could make! Took long enough.

Orange

Re: In anticipation of the end of mining after Party Beta takes effect
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Of the 10% remaining, it only takes .1% of them with programming knowledge to decide to sniff the IP packets and write a program that mines on a and displays status on a separate system."

if this is actually possible I'm never playing online poker again. It almost certainly isn't..

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Possible? Yea anything is possible. Doable in our lifetime, yea probably. Worth the effort, not likely.

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Christ, it's trivial for anyone with IP traffic knowledge (and there's plenty). There are packet sniffers freely available.

You simply have a system A watch traffic on the network and datamine. You play on system B on the same network. You know the reason your boss could track EVERY thing you do on the web at work? Because all that info flies over the network. It's not like you have some sort of private line for your data.

God awful trivial. Again, you just need ONE motivated engineer to figure out the packet structure. He then just sells/gives the app to everyone else just like the guy that made PokerTracker did.

Then you get the arms race of Party encrypting packets, rotating keys, etc, and we'll see if the datamining engineers want to try to keep up with it.