Re: Hmm live AKs hand
 

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A good player I'm calling and raising the river and folding to a 3bet.

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"Good" villan views us as weak, remember. And, I think if we put a play on that has us folding TPTK on the river, he's right. I want to show this down; if you can't call the 3-bet, you shouldn't be raising.

Re: Hmm live AKs hand
 

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Can I raise the flop against the very good player? Can I also raise TT on this flop? Sounds like a plan.

-DeathDonkey

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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Hmm live AKs hand
 

Grunch. I've played my last several thousand hands at the party "beginner" .50/1 tables, so I'm not used to playing against "very good" (or even reasonable) players, so take this with a grain of salt . . .

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A) The villian is a typical ho-hum player (not fishy but not great).


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Raise for value. If we get 3-bet, we can re-evaluate (would villan 3-bet PF with lowish suited connectors?).

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B) The villian is very good. At least as good as you are and views you as an overly tight (maybe weak) TAG.


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I would raise here again. I actually think there is a better chance that this guy has two pair or something, since he might have been setting up a play on the flop. On the other hand, a 3-bet might be a bluff to push a weak-tight player off the flop. So I would call a 3-bet and check/call the river.

Re: Hmm live AKs hand
 

Against a typical fishy player I think he's likely donking a weak ace into me or is on a bluff. I think I raise the turn, as I'm going to get paid off by a weaker ace on the turn and river, and he's likely check/folding the river anyways if he's on a bluff.

Against a good player I just call down, bet the river if checked to. He's less likely to pay off a raise with a hand that we beat. But I'm kind of puss like that.

Re: Hmm live AKs hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch. I've played my last several thousand hands at the party "beginner" .50/1 tables, so I'm not used to playing against "very good" (or even reasonable) players, so take this with a grain of salt . . .

[ QUOTE ]

A) The villian is a typical ho-hum player (not fishy but not great).


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Raise for value. If we get 3-bet, we can re-evaluate (would villan 3-bet PF with lowish suited connectors?).

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B) The villian is very good. At least as good as you are and views you as an overly tight (maybe weak) TAG.


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I would raise here again. I actually think there is a better chance that this guy has two pair or something, since he might have been setting up a play on the flop. On the other hand, a 3-bet might be a bluff to push a weak-tight player off the flop. So I would call a 3-bet and check/call the river.

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Same disclaimers, since I've been playing similarly unsophisticated players; but the more I think about it, the more I think that a turn raise is the right move regardless of Villain's quality.

Would Villain have 3-bet preflop with A7/A6/A4? 44/66? 85? In a 9-handed game, now heads-up with the previous raiser? I can see a maniac doing this, but neither description of Villain fits the maniac mold. With three rags on the board, and TPTK in our hand, I've got to think we're in the lead.

One step further... what is he putting us on? We raised preflop, but didn't cap; so we had a decent hand, but one that needed to improve. We didn't show any postflop aggression, which furthers his perspective that we're not holding an ace. He views us as weak-tight, so he's not concerned that we would have raised with A7/66/etc.

I can see the rationale for calling the turn and possibly raising the river. But I don't see him throwing his hand away; he'll suspect that we have an ace, but that suspicion is probably not strong enough to make him fold.

Hmmmmmm indeed
 

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Raise the river for (b) and I don't think it's close.

Raise turn for (a).

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I feel like the converse is true. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

I'm honestly shocked that almost everyone in micros thinks differently then I do. I feel like...

A) This spot is more complex then it appears.

B) Is the Gerber baby an idiot? (Okay this is true but we are talking with-in the context of this hand)

Everyone knows how I feel about waiting to raise in these types of spots, but I feel very strongly that we should raise right now against a good player...

What are some good things that come from raising right now? Why should we wait? What is better?

Brad

Re: Hmm live AKs hand
 

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A) The villian is a typical ho-hum player (not fishy but not great).

B) The villian is very good. At least as good as you are and views you as an overly tight (maybe weak) TAG.


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my 2 cents on each scenario:

A) The 3 betting range of a "ho-hum" villain is pretty easy to guess IMO. We're probably way ahead here. This villain probably doesn't think of you as weak tight, since he doesn't really think too much about you at all. I like raising the turn here, since I think "ho-hum" villains have a dificult time throwing away pocket under pairs higher than eights. Also, I think this villain is much more likely to check the river if you call him on the turn.

B) This villain probably does notice how you've played your earlier hands, and a raise on the turn would send an under pair in the muck quite often IMO. I think a lot of good players in this spot will think you don't have an ace when you don't raise the turn, and will probably bet out on the river as well. I like waiting to the river to raise against this villain.

Re: Hmm live AKs hand
 

Oy, I'm a moron... what happens to the card that lands face up? Is it just dead? You wouldn't have told us if it was reshuffled into the deck, so I assume so.

Re: Hmm live AKs hand
 

Oy... tough question:

A) Raise right now, they're sucked in already, I think.

B) He'll check-call the river here, so you have to raise hte turn. If he folds, that's alright, he probably won't be able to do it once he's seen that ace hit the felt before the deal.

Jees man, I could be WAY wrong here.

Re: Hmm live AKs hand
 

B) If the villian is very good and views us as weak tight, then he should recognize that we have a big ace when we call the flop. He knows there is very little chance that we have anything else, since there are no draws on the flop. We would have already folded anything else.

He doesn't have AQs or AJs because he will fold those dominated hands against your preflop raise.

Villian probably has AK here. So just call it down.

Edit: He wouldn't fold AQs / AJs from the BB. But he isn't raising them preflop. Villain is only going to raise with group 1 hands from the BB.