Annoying TT hand...top set from the blinds
 

It seems to me that sets out of the blinds in unraised pots are very difficult to get paid off on, which makes a case for making small and somewhat annoying raises with them in order to build a pot should you hit. But that's a somewhat different question for a different thread.

Here's a TT hand where I felt very lost the whole way. All advice welcome.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP ($197)
CO ($156.85)
Button ($108.35)
Hero ($194.90)
BB ($102.45)
UTG ($170.60)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $2, CO calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($8) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $2</font>, MP calls $2, CO calls $2, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $12</font>, BB folds, MP calls $10, CO folds.

Turn: ($36) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

What's my line here?

The Doc

Edited to include the turn card.

Re: Annoying TT hand...top set from the blinds
 

I'd lead for 6 or so. Your checkraise into three callers looks like you have the goods, chances are you'll lose them. You don't wanna chase them out, you want to allow them to make a mistake by calling without proper odds.

JMO.

Edit to your edit: so you got a caller. I'd bet 15 or something into him. If he raises, it's a pretty safe fold. If he calls, you might boat up. If he folds, good job.

Re: Annoying TT hand...top set from the blinds
 

I'd bet $15-$18 and reevaluate based on his action. A small raise/minraise can safely be called with your 10 outs to fill up and nice implied odds. No way I'm checking here and giving him a free card or a free chance to bluff me off the pot.

Re: Annoying TT hand...top set from the blinds
 

Wait, you don't raise TT pre-flop in 6-max? Do you raise JJ? I'm just curious, because TT is usually an auto-raise for me, unless there's already been a raise before me.

I bet 1/2 pot on the turn, and call a mini-raise, and probably fold to a big raise.

Re: Annoying TT hand...top set from the blinds
 

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Wait, you don't raise TT pre-flop in 6-max? Do you raise JJ? I'm just curious, because TT is usually an auto-raise for me, unless there's already been a raise before me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes but not always with 99-JJ.

The Doc

Re: Annoying TT hand...top set from the blinds
 

raising pf OOP != fun.

i bet 3/4 pot and reevaluate after seeing their action, but that's what i'd do with any hand in this spot that i didn't intend to check-fold.

Re: Annoying TT hand...top set from the blinds
 

[ QUOTE ]

It seems to me that sets out of the blinds in unraised pots are very difficult to get paid off on, which makes a case for making small and somewhat annoying raises with them in order to build a pot should you hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not treat TT like a big hand vs non tricky limpers shorthanded and raise the pot pf when you have a nice pot equity and to establish aggression?

I raise pf almost every time, the times when I dont is when I forget.

The flop if you're goin to c/r, which in an unraised pot is not how I'd play the nuts here, (Why? Because you hold 3 tens; no one has an overpair; so what made hands you crush can you play vs? Nothing, except a smaller set, which if you bet, they will raise because it's so draw heavy.) you need to pot c/r. This is a very coordinated board, and even though you wont get action a lot % of the time, giving an inexpensive card when they DO have implied odds is worse.

so make it 18 total when the action is back on you.

on the turn this is a case where MP has called twice on the flop. He could have a straight draw (45, 89, hell even 68 if he's loose.. pt stats would help...) or more likely a flush draw. A big draw (J8d, for example) is unlikely given flop passivity. But possible. So you're either losing to a flush but want to see a river; losing to a straight but want to see a river; or beating a straight draw which doesn't have too many outs vs you, unless they have a diamond.

So... If you bet and are raised, the situaion will suck... So... Check/call and check/raise river if it pairs the board, unless villain is good.

Re: Annoying TT hand...top set from the blinds
 

Raise preflop. Big. Lead the turn for 25. Call a raise if he gives you odds to fill up including implied odds obviously. Fold otherwise. But these donkeys who bet 2 on the flop will always give you odds to fill up.

Edit: I read the action wrong and had the wrong caller. I probably prefer check/call turn now slightly because he almost certainly has the flush and you are just hoping for a cheap look at the river. However, some of these donkeys play top pair like this, too, in which case he may well have a live flush draw against you. I definitely don't think a bet here is bad, but check/call might be slightly better.

Results
 

I bet $20 and he pushed. Easy fold but very unsatisfying all the way around.

The Doc

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
I bet $20 and he pushed. Easy fold but very unsatisfying all the way around.

The Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

tsk tsk

that 20 is better served buying a girl lunch