KK, when to let it go
 

Should I let this go on the turn or chase my 2 outs?

Party Poker 0.15/0.30 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds</font>, Hero raises</font>, SB 3-bets</font>, BB calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)</font>
SB bets</font>, BB calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (8 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)</font>
SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (11 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)</font>
SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 13 BB

Re: KK, when to let it go
 

you cant call that turn if your gonna fold the river, you have to call down on the river or just let it go on the turn.

flop is raise/fold too....

whats your read on SB?

Re: KK, when to let it go
 

[ QUOTE ]
you cant call that turn if your gonna fold the river, you have to call down on the river or just let it go on the turn.

flop is raise/fold too....

whats your read on SB?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I agree with the raise/fold the flop. Table and SB are a bunch of calling stations. This is a beginner table on PP where I'm clearing a bonus [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. Having 6-9 players in the pot PF is driving me nuts and I'm feeling lucky to be even after 1500 hands or so.

Re: KK, when to let it go
 

Flop is not raise or fold. Why do you think that?

Re: KK, when to let it go
 

cap preflop and raise the flop.
given your play, bad fold on the river, you definitely need to show this down.

Re: KK, when to let it go
 

Why do people want to raise this flop? To save 1SB in getting to showdown?

The flop call/turn call/river fold is terrible - call the river if you get that far (the river is more-or-less a brick)

fold the flop though - SB 3-bet you, and you're certainly behind with no odds to catch your 2 outer (with another player calling already)

cap preflop too - KK is an awesome hand

Re: KK, when to let it go
 

because your hand isnt improving?

oh yeah and why didnt you cap preflop, i just noticed that.... always cap KK

Re: KK, when to let it go
 

Grunch. Cap PF man!

To state the obvious, if one of the villans on the turn has an A, you don't have two outs.

What are your reads on SB? Would he 3-bet with KQ? With TT-JJ? The ace on the turn decreases the odds that SB has a big A. I would probably call down, though the presence of BB worries me. What's he tagging along with here, a little A? Smaller PP?

If you call a bet on the turn, you've gotta call on the river.

Edit: after reading the other posts, I think that a good case can be made for folding the flop. Given a "default donk" read for SB, I would think that most of his 3-betting range includes an A.

Re: KK, when to let it go
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why do people want to raise this flop? To save 1SB in getting to showdown?

[/ QUOTE ]

i said raise or fold read dependent. against most vils i would fold it at this point

against a more maniacal vil, raising the flop can accomplish a few things:
1) cheaper showdown
2) free card
3) chance to fold them if they dont have an ace
4) better knowledge if SB 3bets the flop we can peel and fold the turn ui, or if he calls and leads the turn we can safely fold ui

Re: KK, when to let it go
 

Let it go? Dude, raise the flop. Dont fold on the river getting 13:1 to call. THey played so passive it seems obvious to me they dont have trip As.