Is this a call? Sleepless nights...
 

This one was the turn point of a good session to a bad one, so it stuck in my mind probably more than it deserved.

Pacific Poker (8handed)

EP1 is loose.
MP2 is pretty LAGish, close to beeing a maniac.
BB is a real maniac.

Hero is MP1 with J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

EP1 calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls, CO calls, B calls, SB folds, BB raises, everybody calls. (6 players, 12,5 SB)

Flop is

K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BB checks, EP1 checks, I check, MP2 bets, CO calls, B raises, BB 3-bets, EP1 caps (23,5 SB)

I mucked with pretty little consideration, but I in retrospective I think a call wouldn't have been out of the way. I was sure of B and BB calling, and pretty sure of MP2
doing so, so it would have been 29-4 or about 7-1 for a gutshot with a backdoor flush (which I estimated 5.5 outs)).
I think the implied odds and the fact that two of the 4 raises are maniacs tip it to a call.


(needless to say the two hearts came and I was ripping the mouse from my computer and throwing it out of the window...)

Re: Is this a call? Sleepless nights...
 

I think that I would have most likely mucked on the flop instead of cold calling 4 small bets as well.

You probably needed to discount your outs in your retrospective calculation.

For example you could have made your straight and lost to someone who had AJ for a higher straight. Or you could have made your back-door flush and lost to someone who had a full-house.

Its easy to become results orientated and think that you made a mistake by folding what would have been a winning hand after seeing the rest of the hand.

However, I think that you most likely made the correct decision to muck your hand.

Re: Is this a call? Sleepless nights...
 

Having to call 4 back to you this is not a good situation. Even maniacs get lucky, and to look at it the other way, 2 of the 3 raisers you didn't give any reads on (except that EP1 was loose - is he passive/aggressive?), but you are not saying that he was a maniac nor the button.
Your implied odds are nice as the maniacs will probably keep pumping every street.
All that said, only half the field you are playing against are maniacs, I fold this and kick the cat when I would have won the hand.

Re: Is this a call? Sleepless nights...
 

4 cold with the ass end of a gutshot on a paired board? No thanks.

Re: Is this a call? Sleepless nights...
 

Looks like an easy fold. None of your "outs" are particularly clean, you are not drawing to the nut straight or the nut flush, and either of those hands could already be beat by someone that holds KQ.

Re: Is this a call? Sleepless nights...
 

[ QUOTE ]
This one was the turn point of a good session to a bad one, so it stuck in my mind probably more than it deserved.


(needless to say the two hearts came and I was ripping the mouse from my computer and throwing it out of the window...)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a ridiculous easy fold and it's a little worrysome that you're letting the results determine whether or not you played the hand right or whether or not you had a good session.

Re: Is this a call? Sleepless nights...
 

No one has mentioned it, but isn't this a fold from MP1, particularly with 2 known maniacs yet to act?

Re: Is this a call? Sleepless nights...
 

i usually fold hands that are probably drawing dead. especially when i have to CC 4 bets.