Raise the turn?
 

Party Poker 3.00/6.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(6 handed)</font> link

This hand is 4 handed so UTG = CO

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.00 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

Why did you check the flop?

Re: Raise the turn?
 

Villain was loose passive and I didn't think he'd fold.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

So? I think you have the best hand here a fair amount of time.

WiteKnite

Re: Raise the turn?
 

Am I really ahead of both of them often enough on this flop to make it a bet? They are loose passives so I have zero fold equity

Re: Raise the turn?
 

Yes, it's very possible they won't fold. But you may well be ahead. So I'd bet my A-hi hands here and check the K-hi hands.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

I would have also bet the flop. This gives you the option to check behind on the turn unimproved or if you pick up the straight draw.

As you played it, I would have raised the turn and bet any non 5/J river.

BUT, I'm a shorthanded noob. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Raise the turn?
 

You bet the flop, so you can check the turn UI. Its like buying two cards for a small bet right? If you check the flop, what if they fire the turn? What if you just let them improve for free? How do you play ur hand now? You have TPTK that just came donw this is a must raise on the turn.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I really ahead of both of them often enough on this flop to make it a bet? They are loose passives so I have zero fold equity

[/ QUOTE ]
You still have overcard outs so a flop bluff doesn't need to be immediately profitable for it to be a good play.

You also have the best hand here some amount of the time.


I raise the turn, especially with a caller stuck in between.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

So your standard line on this flop is bet the flop, check the turn UI?

Re: Raise the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So your standard line on this flop is bet the flop, check the turn UI?

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Yes. I usually check the turn when I pick up a straight draw as well. An exception to this would be If I had a read that my opponent(s) was a loose flop peeler and often folds on the turn.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So your standard line on this flop is bet the flop, check the turn UI?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, unless I am likely to be checkraised by a frisky villain.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So your standard line on this flop is bet the flop, check the turn UI?

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I think in the 3/6 and 5/10 games this is my standard line in position just about every single time. This is obviously exploitable, but against most donks it's your best move.

Keep in mind it also defends against future donkings and doesn't reveal your hand for the big bet streets.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

Bet the flop, raise the turn.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

As others have said, bet the flop and raise the turn.

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Villain was loose passive and I didn't think he'd fold.

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I think this way of thinking is very common, and so very wrong. The way you make money is when others make mistakes. Sometimes they make mistakes by folding when they should call, but often they make mistakes by calling when they should fold! You are often here quite often enough, and if the villains want to peel with trash, you should be happy for them. Sure, you might make MORE money if they were to fold, but at least you are making some money by having them call incorrectly (rather than checking and gaining no money).

Re: Raise the turn?
 

Just about any hand is getting correct odds to call this flop b/c they usually have 6 clean outs against me

Re: Raise the turn?
 

You give EVERY hand UNLIMITED odds by not betting the flop.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

You don't think that w/that flop against 2 opponents I'm behind often enough to make checking behind wortwhile? They all have odds to draw against me as well making calling pretty much correct for them too.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

I think giving everyone a free look at the turn always sucks.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

I agree with the majority here that you need to keep the lead on the flop for the reasons already stated.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

What do you do if 3 bet on this turn? My original reason for not raising was that the 9 gives many hands 2 pair or a possible strait draw. I see the error of my ways as I would get to make a strait draw pay 2 as opposed to 1 bet to see the river.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

You are not getting 3-bet on the turn because you lead the flop and the turn, if you get 2-bet you can reevaluate the situation.

Re: Raise the turn?
 

I meant the way I played it. If you raise and it gets 3 bet back to you, what do you do?

Re: Raise the turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I meant the way I played it. If you raise and it gets 3 bet back to you, what do you do?

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you'd be getting 11.5:1 or 9.5:1 on a call depending on if UTG calls SB's 3-bet or not, so I guess I'd call and fold the river unimproved. Also, I'd probably just call the river if I improve to trips or aces up.

efficacy

Re: Raise the turn?
 

betting the flop is definitely my std line, but i'll sometimes check in position after raising preflop like this to confuse my opponents.

but if you do that, you MUST raise the turn IMO. 1. (main reason) it's a good hand to raise for both value and protection. 2. your flop-check, turn-raise makes it look like you may have slowplayed a monster, so you may not get raised by a better hand anyway (and will get called down by lots of worse ones hoping you're playing overcards aggro.)