Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

Villian is 27/13/2 over 200 hands.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG folds, MP folds, Button calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, planning on... ?

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

[ QUOTE ]
omfg am I reading this preflop action right

[/ QUOTE ]

FYPM

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

Jason, what does FYPM stand for? FYP is one of the few abbreviations I still dont know.

To OP: You must call the river, given the pot odds you are receiving your hand will be good enough times here to make your call profitable in the long run.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

FYP = Fixed Your Post

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

fold the flop

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

the way you played it, i'd check planning on calling the river. fold preflop, fold or call one on the flop, though. eh. a fold preflop takes away the wicked hard decisions you have to make postflop.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

easy river value bet.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

[ QUOTE ]
easy river value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my first though after I checked.

I'm more interested in the rest of the hand though.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

[ QUOTE ]
a fold preflop takes away the wicked hard decisions you have to make postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

But then it's no fun.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

I'd fold preflop, maybe I'm in the minority though.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

[ QUOTE ]
FYP = Fixed Your Post

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you, Ive always wanted to know that.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold preflop, maybe I'm in the minority though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely wouldn't fault you. It's the cold-caller that changed my mind.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

[ QUOTE ]
easy river value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, I don't often see AK really calling here, I think more likely you are against some mid pair that hasn't made a set. 77,88,TT or AJ. Check and fold seems really reasonably actually, but I guess it's the pot odds are quite big you probably have to call.

The rest of the hand preflop ok that's really really marginaly but probably can be slightly -EV or breakeven. It kind of sucks cause I can't see any image considerations from it, other than plays to many hands....

Flop no set no need to continue.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

I don't think you can profitably play 33 out of position for an extra 2 bets if you're going to put in several bets post flop with an underpair against a pre-flop raiser and 3-bettor.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

Yeah, let's see.... what was your least favorite street? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Anyways, he had QQ with a diamond and I lost. He checked behind.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

PF call is easy. Flop is a tough spot but I think your play is okay. Things could certainly get ugly though so I can see a case for folding. River is an easy value bet like Vic says.

Edit: looking at it again I definitely like a flop fold.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

[ QUOTE ]
easy river value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]dude, no way. totally disagree for obvious reasons.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

river is not an easy value bet guys what hand is calling you given this action...

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

i dont like the flop checkraise.
i dont like the river value bet.

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
easy river value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]dude, no way. totally disagree for obvious reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

i guess i shoulda put a smiley face after my comment...

Preflop Calculation
 

Hey I was talking to Our House and I did a little preflop calculation and figured I'd post it here to get your thoughts. The key variables here are the 25% I thought it gets capped and the adjustment of 7.5:1 to 10:1 to make up the times you hit, lose, and get owned (this part is the key so I want your opinions on the adjutment).


25% of the time hero is getting 13.5:3 and 75% he is getting 10.5:2 which averages to 11.25:2.25.

If we say he needs 10:1 or 22.5:2.25 (instead of 7.5:1) to make up for when he hits a set and lose he needs to make up the difference between 11.25 and 22.25 which is 11 sb or 5.5 BB.

Re: Preflop Calculation
 

so you are saying when you hit a set you need to average netting 5.5bb after the flop?

Re: Odd line... how much did I screw up and how badly?
 

OK Metetron, you wanted to generate some discussion about the hand other than the river?

Our House: metetron's post.....
Victor: my statement was a a joke
Our House: nono
Our House: i mean preflop
Our House: i turbo muck
Victor: i call it
Our House: why do so many call it
Our House: UTG isn't known, there's a cold caller and a TAG 3 bets
Victor: 5.5:1
Our House: barely
Our House: it's a sh!tty 5.5:1
Victor: if capped its about 4.3:1
Our House: right, but there are different 5.5:1s
Our House: 5 limpers and you're SB is a lot different of a 5.5:1
Our House: and it also matters how many players have PPs
Our House: with a raiser, cc'er and a 3-bettor, it's much more likely that there are more PPs in there
Our House: seriously cuts down your chances
Victor: set over set is fairly uncommon
Our House: you're right when there's only 1 PP
Our House: 2 makes it worse
Our House: 3 is bad
Our House: 4 is terrible for you
Our House: plus, they don't fold pairs, so you can get setted on the turn and river also
Our House: everyone is spoiled from hitting sets and winning big pots
Our House: they forget the losses
Victor: pairs and sets are fun
Our House: but not +EV
Our House: just fun
Victor: im not sure
Victor: i think its profitable
Victor: not a gold mine
Victor: but just playing for set value should work

Metetron, I think the preflop call is slightly -EV just to hit a set. If you're going to play the hand the way you did, preflop is even more than slightly -EV.

Re: Preflop Calculation
 

right, if the two variables I included are correct. The adjustment of 7.5:1 to 10:1 was somewhat arbitrary. I think preflop is close but fine. I think flop is 10 times worse.

EDIT: The adjustment I came up with to 10:1 already takes into account reverse implied odds. So, if my logic is correct, you need to make 5.5BB the times you hit and your hand holds up.