Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

You're dealt AA UTG in a full ring cash game. You have GameTime+, or whatever, open and you're looking at the average PFR for the table.

1) Do you EVER limp AA under the gun?

2) If yes, what sort of average PFR for the table would you limp here with, assuming that the main aggressors aren't the SB and BB? That's a player average, not the percentage of raised flops (this might be an interesting figure though). I think this is a tough one because we have two of the aces, meaning that AK, AQ is less likely.

I have a hand somewhere to go with this where I tried limping aces UTG with a table average of >6%. Had about four callers and then the BB bumped it ... which brings me to question 3!

3) So somebody raises and it comes back round to you. What now? A reraise here would seem to scream aces. In fact, this alone could be a reason not to limp in the first place.

I assume people try this with hands that aren't aces as well as aces. This would seem to be the LAG way of doing things, but I don't play LAG so well.

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

Every once in a while I'll limp w AA or KK UTG with the intention of reraising. Mostly I do this to set up the occasional resteal when I limp UTG with a hand like TT-88 or AQs. Again, I attempt both of these plays very rarely.

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

I never raise anything UTG, I just dont like that position, and I only raise AA on SB if there are more than 1 caller or if caller is calling station or bb is calling station.

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I never raise anything UTG, I just dont like that position, and I only raise AA on SB if there are more than 1 caller or if caller is calling station or bb is calling station.

[/ QUOTE ]hows this strategy working out for you?

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I never raise anything UTG, I just dont like that position,

[/ QUOTE ]

This strategy was very effective for me at the lower limits where people would always push my reraise with KK and sometimes much worse, and a call of my reraise would almost always be QQ, JJ, or AK. Once I hit $2/$4, the strategy became useless as a push almost always means AA and people are much less likely to pay off after the flop with KK and QQ.

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I never raise anything UTG, I just dont like that position, and I only raise AA on SB if there are more than 1 caller or if caller is calling station or bb is calling station.

hows this strategy working out for you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I played this way for quite a while and still do occasionally if I feel the players are good and aggressive after me in a 9-10 handed game.

If it's a non-optimal style of play, it's not by much. I seriously never raised UTG or UTG + 1 for probably my 1rst 6 months of serious play after I got my a** kicked a couple times in bloated pots out of position.

There's always exceptions obviously, but my default play used to be to limp - i actually still do this a lot, as it allows me to limp w/ most pocket pairs and if at the right table suited connectors. I make a decent amount of money from EP, so i'm fine w/ the strategy.

I think super system advocates this style as well, which is why I started using it in the first place w/ very good results. Now I'm a little more flexible, but I still like limp-reraising a ton w/ many hands if stacks are less than 150 BB. People don't adjust to a limp-reraiser that well.

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

I limp practically all the time with AA and KK when in the early positions. I usually Raise 15%-20% of the time depending on my table image and my opponents styles. I find that my opponents start respecting my limps more often and are more timid to raise without a premium hand, allowing me to limp with weaker hands, especially low suited connectors (as well as surprise them when I do raise in early with my big pairs).
You always wanna keep your opponents guessing.

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

i usually just raise straight away UTG with pocket AA but occasionaly i like to check hoping for a raise and a couple of calls and then i go over the top with a BIG reraise hoping to isolate the initial raiser and drive out the calls. This is actually one of the few plays i have that works more often than not. And if things go well on the flop, ie..cards are low I lead in with a good bet which usually takes it right there.

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

you sure typed alot for saying absolutely nothing

if you limp reraise with AA/KK you should also do it with other hands as well such as suited connectors, middle pairs, AK etc

you cannot be predictable against intelligent opponents in NL

if you FIRST show a limp reraise with junk, youll get much better results on you AA/KK limp reraises

lesson over

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

[ QUOTE ]
you sure typed alot for saying absolutely nothing

if you limp reraise with AA/KK you should also do it with other hands as well such as suited connectors, middle pairs, AK etc

you cannot be predictable against intelligent opponents in NL

if you FIRST show a limp reraise with junk, youll get much better results on you AA/KK limp reraises

lesson over

[/ QUOTE ]

Time to grab a drink bro and relax. I've read several posts from you today that are just way agro. Who cares if someone is posting nonesense? This is just a friendly reminder, be nice to the newbies! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

trust me ive had a few already

this forum is just pissing me off lately b/c i used to love it so much and its *flushing noise*

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

[ QUOTE ]
this forum is just pissing me off lately b/c i used to love it so much and its *flushing noise*

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think he get's it!

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

there are not enough intelligent posts from experts anymore

sinking ship? [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

I thought the word "occasionally" covered the mix up your play aspect of the post. I get the feeling that you're so busy looking for something to piss and moan about you missed the intention of the post. If anyone thinks mine was a bad post then you have nothing to teach me (or anyone else) about poker. And if you think the post said nothing try reading it sober.

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

Do really believe my post was non-sense? Could you tell me why. Just curious.

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

I have struggled to figure out what I "usually" do until I figured out the reason the answer is so difficult. Since I'm going to get AA once every 220 hands that means UTG once every 2200 hands, or five times every 11,000 hands. For me thats going to average around once a month.

My preference is to limp/re-raise as I feel this gives me the best opportunity to get heads-up. I don't have enough PT stats to tell you how effective this is. Whenever I get AA I'm thinking of SSH and "your more likely to win a small pot and lose a big one". I'm always happy with whatever I win because I avoided getting stacked one more time.

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

I usually limp with big hands UTG, but obviously dependent on stacks sizes and reads. The reraise (if possible) also depends on number of callers and size of the raise. If someone makes it 5xBB and it will be heads-up back to me I am usually thinking check-raise on the flop. If it is 2xBB with 3-4 callers I will make a substantial raise, and give away my hand hoping to play a big pot heads-up or take it down right there. I think that taking 12 or so BB's is just as good as making a standard raise UTG in terms of equity since opponents will put you on such a narrow range anyways (I usually don't play LAG) and play against you only to spike a set. Obviously, you need to become weak-tight post-flop if 7 limpers see the flop.

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

I think he's angry because too many people are posting in the M/H Stakes Forum who either have no clue what they're talking about or don't even play Mid-High Stakes poker. I think he's got every right to be angry. Some of the information I have read so far in this thread is just plain awful.

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

Like another poster said, if you are planning on limp-reraising, you should be doing in with other hands. The problem is that if you do this with other hands too often, you're bound to get caught.

I think the optimal strategy for AA UTG is to just raise it your normal raise. Since you're UTG, this will almost always narrow out the field for you whereas if you limp UTG and you don't get a raise, you're not going to have a clue where you're at.

As well, if you raise UTG, there are 9 players left that can repop it. When this happens, the right play is generally to push. If the repop is big enough so that you're both going to be committed after the flop, you can alternatively call and check-raise the flop all-in, since you're going to be OOP unless it was the SB or BB that raised.

Re: Limping AA UTG - 10 handed full ring?
 

I think this about sums up what people have said in the thread.

As mentioned it's pretty rare to get AA UTG, or even in an early position removing the blinds. However, as AA is the most profitable hand there is, I think it merits some consideration. Indeed, perhaps it happens so rarely that I really want to maximize profit when it does happen.

Reraising junk UTG and managing to show it down without being skalped is a tricky move, and one I'm not up for. I may try to hone this skill at a later date! Also, setting people up for a situation that happens so rarely (i.e. unlikely in the current session) doesn't seem like a great plan, so the play itself would have to be +ev. I know there are ways to do this, but you'd better be good at it.


You say just to stick in my "normal raise" ... from 3x - 5x for me ... probably the latter UTG. The problem here is that I rarely raise anything UTG. Also, even though I'm losing EV I really only want at most two callers if I'm going to try and play a big pot OOP.

I wanted to use the table average as a metric for how likely a limp is to be reraised simply because it's an actual figure rather than talking about how the button is very LAGgy.

Also, is there anywhere that gives some examples of what sort of hands various percentages might mean? For example 2% means probably just AA/KK etc. I realise that this can't be absolute, but it could be useful in some situations.