Questionable River
 

.5/1 4-handed on Titan.

No great reads, but SB hasn't gotten out of line thus far. First time I've seen anyone check-raise a river, as the table has been passive thus far.

Hero opens K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the button. Both blinds come along.

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Blinds check, <font color="red">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets</font>, SB calls

River: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets</font>, <font color="red">SB raises</font>, Hero pukes and folds....


My thoughts: I think flop and turn are pretty automatic, but the river is where it got interesting. The board got pretty scary, so I thought about checking behind, but I've been forcing myself to get out of the NL mindset and start value-betting more rivers. I haven't seen the SB get tricky yet, but has been playing slightly LAG. So, without being results-oriented, is this river a value-bet or check behind? River check-raise is an automatic fold, correct?

Re: Questionable River
 

That board is pretty scary, but 4-handed i value bet it. I'm also a LAG.

I hate folding to the check-raise because i think it just might be a bluff 1 in 8 times since that's just about the scariest card in the deck, but i think you're going to see two pair or better almost all the time.

Nh.

Re: Questionable River
 

Playing four handed, calling this river has little to do with what your opponent has THIS HAND, but how you want to train him to behave. I would call this river check raise in a similiar manner that heads up against a LAG I will limp re-raise quite frequently. You want to throw them off their natural rhythm, and to do that you need information. So call here, see what he's got, and start getting inside his head.

Re: Questionable River
 

I don't think the river bet is very valuable. You've represented a king or pocket pair the whole way - what's he calling you with that he doesn't have you beaten with? I'm so afraid of a check-raise on a board like this that I'm checking behind him and seeing a showdown for free.

Edit: Also wanted to add that if you've been folding to turn/river bets a lot after controlling the hand, it might be worth it to call his reraise getting 9:1. I've seen a lot of seemingly passive/weak players wake up and get creative in situations like these, and the pot may be big enough.

Re: Questionable River
 

he's calling this river with any pair. this is a definite value bet

i would not call the check raise

Re: Questionable River
 

totally standard.

you cant possibly check behind with a J kicker for your K. you played it perfectly.

Re: Questionable River
 

Its a small pot so I dont mind folding on the river. However I would have checked on the river and not bet, this is not to say hind sight is 20/20 but and OESD on the board is pretty damn scary. Villain probably has something like A7. Other than the river, you played it good.

Re: Questionable River
 

I'm always struggling with this concept. You only have to 1 one out of 10 times, but are you good 1 out of 10? Oh, the dilema.

Grunch:

In this case, I think you have to call. If you had a "great" read that he never ever got out of line, it's an easy fold. But he knows that this is the scariest board ever.

Edit: I like the value bet.

Re: Questionable River
 

This is a fine fold without a read on SB as tricky-bluff type. You do need to bet the river.

Re: Questionable River
 

Thanks for all the good replies. I guess the hand was played fine. However, I think that if I were a regular in the games there, the 1bb on the river would be worth the information gained on that particular player. Also, I failed to note that I was probably perceived by the table as being lag, so that may sway more toward a call on the end. Although, I think that if he had a weaker king, such as K9 or K8, he would check-raise the turn, in which case I probably would have called down. A river check-raise always seems much stronger than a turn CR to me.