Getting Value from Aces
 

PP 109. Not a particularly interesting hand perhaps, but I always seem to get this wrong. Player 10 has built his stack by calling raises in position and playing well to extract chips from his opponent's premium hand (or ditching if he misses). Would you call or raise here? If you raise how much?

Seat 1: Player 1 (4695)
Seat 2: Player 2 (730)
Seat 3: Player 3 (1312)
Seat 4: Player 4 (3300)
Seat 6: Player 6 (2558)
Seat 7: Player 7 (1170)
Seat 8: HERO (5036)
Seat 9: Player 9 (1470)
Seat 10: Player 10 (5748)
Player 2 posts small blind (50)
Player 3 posts big blind (100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ]
Player 4 folds.
Player 6 folds.
Player 7 folds.
HERO raises (250) to 250
Player 9 folds.
Player 10 calls (250)
Player 1 folds.
Player 2 raises (680) to 730
Player 2 is all-In.
Player 3 folds.
HERO ????

Re: Getting Value from Aces
 

Smooth call PF.

Check raise flop.

Re: Getting Value from Aces
 

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Smooth call PF.

Check raise flop.

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I think this is a pretty solid line, but I might bet out on a draw-heavy board.

Re: Getting Value from Aces
 

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Smooth call PF.

Check raise flop.

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I think this is a pretty solid line, but I might bet out on a draw-heavy board.

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Re: Getting Value from Aces
 

I think smooth-call preflop, check-raise flop is a pretty silly line, personally. What makes you think he's going to auto-bluff into a dry side pot? Unless you think you can trap him post flop......which is tougher than it sounds when he knows where he's at, but you don't, he has position, and there is no side pot...or that he'll put in a reraise preflop if you smooth call...I'd put in a reraise. No need to get tricky here.

Re: Getting Value from Aces
 

If Hero reraises preflop, Villain might fold and we would miss out on the additional t500 if calls shorty's all-in. It also allows villain a chance to reraise to isolate Hero out.

Checking raising the flop can be tricky but we're looking to maiximize value from our hand, so let's gamble that Villain thinks we missed the flop and let him value bet his hand for the main pot.

Re: Getting Value from Aces
 

If you smooth call pre-flop, Villain is not making a mistake by calling along with you. That means the only reason to smooth call pre-flop is if you think you can convince Villain to make a bigger mistake later, or if you think he'll re-raise to push you out.

As others have pointed out, he's not likely to bluff into a dry sidepot, and he knows you aren't either. In my opinion, he'll be more willing to put money into the pot now than later.

Plus, you know you're ahead now, and especially since you describe this guy as trappy, it will be hard for you to be sure about that later. With stacks as deep as yours and Villain's, your objective should not be to squeeze an extra 500 out of whatever two cards he may be holding right now. You need to build a pot now and hope that Villain has a hand big enough to stand up to some pre-flop action and make a second-best hand on the flop. If you sometimes fold out 66, that's okay- you probably were either going to win his 500 and nothing more or lose your stack to his set. If Villain has something like KQ or TT, you are in good position to win a big pot.

Re: Getting Value from Aces
 

I don't like just cold calling because you're only getting more chips here if a) you're beat or b) he has like KQ and it's a K high flop due to the all in player

Pushing seems a little drastic and I can't see him calling it. I'd reraise though, maybe 2000-2200 range and hope he wants to see a flop.

Re: Getting Value from Aces
 

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If you smooth call pre-flop, Villain is not making a mistake by calling along with you. That means the only reason to smooth call pre-flop is if you think you can convince Villain to make a bigger mistake later, or if you think he'll re-raise to push you out.



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this is incorrect. the other reason to smoothe call preflop is that you can get player 10 to pony up another 480 (thus increasing the size of the main pot), whereas he may fold to a raise. Even if you lead out postflop and player 10 folds, you now have (at the very least) the extra 480 in the pot.

Re: Getting Value from Aces
 

[ QUOTE ]
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If you smooth call pre-flop, Villain is not making a mistake by calling along with you. That means the only reason to smooth call pre-flop is if you think you can convince Villain to make a bigger mistake later, or if you think he'll re-raise to push you out.



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this is incorrect. the other reason to smoothe call preflop is that you can get player 10 to pony up another 480 (thus increasing the size of the main pot), whereas he may fold to a raise. Even if you lead out postflop and player 10 folds, you now have (at the very least) the extra 480 in the pot.

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This is incorrect. When he calls the extra 480, if he's getting correct odds to call and will only put money in the pot if he hits two pair or better then you don't want him to call. For example, if he has something like 22-88, just calling is probably a huge mistake. You get stacked if he hits a set and get nothing more if he misses. Since he's getting correct odds to call, you don't want him to.

That said, against many people calling is probably good, because they'll put more money in the pot when they flop a hand like top pair.

Steve