Second pair vs. suspicious turn raise.
 

Button is a little loose aggressive pre flop and neutral post flop. Stats: 30/14/1.4

Party Poker 20/40 (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $30. Hero posts a blind of $20.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, MP3 (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (11 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP3 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, MP3 folds, Hero folds.

Re: Second pair vs. suspicious turn raise.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Button is a little loose aggressive pre flop and neutral post flop. Stats: 30/14/1.4

Party Poker 20/40 (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $30. Hero posts a blind of $20.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, MP3 (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (11 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP3 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, MP3 folds, Hero folds.

[/ QUOTE ]
When an agressive player checks this flop in a shorthanded situation after raising preflop bells should go off. With a paired board against just 2 opponents an aggressive player would bet here after he raised preflop with any two cards and he would be correct to do this, so why is he checking???? He is checking becuz he has a monster and he doesnt want anyone to fold. I think your turn bet is still a good bet despite what just happened becuz there is always a slight chance the villain has nothing despite this read, but once youre raised on the turn this is an easy fold as the villains turn play is very consistent with his flop play of having a monster. Checking this flop in this situation actually shows more strength than betting, and the turn raise verifys the strength of the villains holding.

Re: Second pair vs. suspicious turn raise.
 

Good fold

Re: Second pair vs. suspicious turn raise.
 

Preflop raise sucks IMO. Turn bet does too - he is going to have AQ or 88 there like every time unless he is a real strangeplayer.
-James

Re: Second pair vs. suspicious turn raise.
 

I agree with you in general. Though I have seen more players with AK taking this "bizarre" line here to fake having a monster. Most of the time they will have a strong holding though. Just something I've noticed.

Jeff

Re: Second pair vs. suspicious turn raise.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop raise sucks IMO.

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If blinds were tight or MP3 was tight, would this raise be okay?

[ QUOTE ]
Turn bet does too - he is going to have AQ or 88 there like every time unless he is a real strangeplayer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah... you're right on this one. I should not fall into traps like this.

Re: Second pair vs. suspicious turn raise.
 

I actually think your preflop play was ok. You are against a poster who has already checked from late middle(this means his hand really sux and he is likely to fold if you raise) You are already partially invested since you posted and you only have the button behind you. You are investing just one more small bet with a chance of winning 3.5sb without a contest. And if someone calls you can still win a decent amount of times with just a flop bet, or you may actually hit your hand. Overall raising this preflop is good aggressive poker in my opinion. I realize the situation didnt turn out well, but so what. This is a +ev raise and thats all that matters.

Re: Second pair vs. suspicious turn raise.
 

I want to make sure I'm hearing James right. The move here is the check and fold the turn?

I guess I don't feel so hot about check / folding with 2nd pair on a paired board after it's been checked through like that. I thought I've seen enough people get scared of the paired queens and check through with AK to make putting at least one more bet into this pot worthwhile, no?

Re: Second pair vs. suspicious turn raise.
 

I think I'd let it go preflop, folding unless I had a real good indication that I could steal it all on the flop.

When the flop gets called in two spots here, I'm gonna check call it down for two big bets. Your hand is too good to give up to a raise, and flop calls can't be very good for your hand.

- Andrew

www.pokerstove.com

Re: Second pair vs. suspicious turn raise.
 

Are you sure you're commenting on the right hand? If not, I'd like to hear your thoughts. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]