What do good poker players think?
 

I used to play chess periodically and recall a book titled, "Think like a Grandmaster" which chronicled the thought processes that this and other grandmasters used to select moves during their games. Along those same lines, I'm wondering what thought processes go through the minds of good poker players, specifically:

1) When you are out of a hand (folded pre-flop for example)?
2) When playing post flop?

I'm particularly interested in what questions you ask and what you look for in a hand to help make decisions. Do you have a series of questions you always ask, etc.? Any comments will be appreciated.

Re: What do good poker players think?
 

Well...I'm not sure I'm a *good* player, but I am a winning player, so I'll take a shot at the question... [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

The answer, of course, like with so many things in poker is: It depends...It depends on whether I'm playing limit or no-limit. It depends on whether I"m in a ring game, SnG, or MTT. If it's an SnG or MTT, it depends on whether it's early, bubble time, or heads up at the end.

Pre-flop Thoughts
When I first started playing limit, I tried to keep in mind the Lee Jones' advice in WLLH (and it has served me well):
1. Your cards
2. Your position
3. Your relative position
4. How much money you must invest initally
5. The number of players in the hand
6. How your opponents play

As I moved from limit to no-limit, position, for me, at least, became even more important.

Post-flop Thoughts
For me, post-flop play is, for the most part, pretty straight forward.
1. Do I have the best hand?
2. Do I have a hand that can improve to the best hand?

If I do, I play. If I don't I fold. This is certainly true in limit. In no-limit, with position and chips you can obviously bluff when you may not have the best hand or a hand that can improve to the best hand.

When I'm Out of the Hand Thoughts
I watch how the hand develops...work on my reading skills, trying to put people on hands...that kind of thing...


Doc JS

Re: What do good poker players think?
 

Read the strategy forums for the game you play. The good players are always explaining their logic.

Re: What do good poker players think?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I used to play chess periodically and recall a book titled, "Think like a Grandmaster" which chronicled the thought processes that this and other grandmasters used to select moves during their games

[/ QUOTE ]
GM Alexander Kotov. It's a classic and excellent, but it took me years before I realized the thought process described in the book is not usually how grandmasters calculate variations. The book created an emperor-has-no-clothes situation in which no one wanted to admit they didn't actually practice the elegant analytic process he described.

One of the deep messages of the book is extremely applicable to complex poker games such as hold'em and 7-card stud. The best way to improve is to take typical games and positions and analyze them deeply. The same is true for poker. I have the gift for being able to walk around, drive, etc. with a deal in my head. I frequently put a lot of time--sometimes hours--into studying a single interesting hand from this site. It's amazing how many ideas can be contained in a single hand and the effort really develops deeper understanding for the game. Let me emphasize "effort". Reading Ed, Clark, and the rest is great, but the ideas really gain value when I find a way to apply them by myself.

What do good players think about? Not much I'm sure. This isn't chess. There is very little time to think. The old read-and-react football cliche applies very strongly to poker. If you did your homework away from the table, the right play will usually come to your finger tips with little conscious thought.

Since we are doing other games, let me add a bridge aphorism. Making the wrong play without hesitation is often better than stopping to figure out the correct play. I'd say that goes double for poker.

Re: What do good poker players think?
 

Whether I am a "good" player yet has yet to be proven (i do alright moist of the time), but I can't believe there are any truly good players who don't think a lot. Before the game, during the game and after the game.

IMO you can only improve your game by working on it and that requires thought.

Before the game. Consider who I'm going to be playing against (if a regular game) and review my reads on the players.

Out of the hand? I know I try to put players on hands or at least figure out their game plan.

In a hand? Assess the situation and determine what options are available to me to either take down the pot, maximize my earnings or minmize my losses.

After the game? Review the hands that might have been played differently. Did I make any mistakes? WOuld I have done something differnt?

This kind of thought can only improve one's play. The more prepared I am, the fewer things there are tha can surprise me. This equates to fewer opportunities to make mistakes.

Re: What do good poker players think?
 

caretaker, read Inside the Poker Mind by John Feeney. It has a few very detailed sections telling you what an expert is thinking throughout the play of a hand. And it's just a great book overall.

Re: What do good poker players think?
 

I think I'll have a beer.

Ejnar Pik, Southern-Docks.

Re: What do good poker players think?
 

"The best way to improve is to take typical games and positions and analyze them deeply. The same is true for poker. I have the gift for being able to walk around, drive, etc. with a deal in my head. I frequently put a lot of time--sometimes hours--into studying a single interesting hand from this site. It's amazing how many ideas can be contained in a single hand and the effort really develops deeper understanding for the game. Let me emphasize "effort". Reading Ed, Clark, and the rest is great, but the ideas really gain value when I find a way to apply them by myself."

Well put. I am a winning player with plenty of room for improvement. When analyzing hands I like reading them backwards. This is mentioned in several of the books on the game and has helped me immensely. You can study all the strategy you want, but applying it involves reading hands and doing it quickly and accurately. Picking hands apart backwards while studying what each player was thinking may give you confidence.

Re: What do good poker players think?
 

1) When you are out of a hand (folded pre-flop for example)?
How will I catch this fish?

2) When playing post flop?
How will I cook this fish?

Re: What do good poker players think?
 

In my limited experience, the good players do think. The others dont, or dont think as much. What do they think about? They think about what's important. What's important? How to extract the most money from any hand they are in, combining ML, psychology, hand reading and position. What do they not think about? Anything else. What are they doing when they are not in a hand? Thinking.