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-   -   One more...too weak? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=338156)

09-16-2005 11:40 AM

One more...too weak?
 
Paradise Poker 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (10 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP3 folds, Button folds, Hero calls.

River: (14 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB

thesharpie 09-16-2005 11:43 AM

Re: One more...too weak?
 
I'd be betting the flop hoping MP1 raises.

On the turn this looks a lot like a pair of aces to me, I'd 3 bet.

KingOtter 09-16-2005 11:50 AM

Re: One more...too weak?
 
I would have preferred to bet out on the flop and let MP1 clear out the others with a raise, rather than have everyone stuck for your raise. Like what happened on the turn, but earlier.

Ask yourself what you think MP1 has..

The range I see is AQ-AK, JJ-AA.. maybe AJs, KQs, KJs, ATs, TT, but most people don't raise those.

Chances are you're still ahead on the turn, so I'd probably 3-bet the turn and just check/call the river.

KO

POKhER 09-16-2005 12:03 PM

Re: One more...too weak?
 
What i would do:
3Bet, If he caps then Fold. If he calls bet the river(and call an unlikly raise).

The woffle/Reasons below


If we 3bet and he caps ill assume AA so ill probably fold(Sounds weak, but whats he going to cap with? that we dont beat).

We're way ahead of AK/AQ/KK/QQ (Preflop raising hands).
Way behind AT/AJ/AA

So 3bet, Fold to a cap.

The way you played it looks ok, he seems to have hit a card/2pair so calling down isn't the worst.

if you 3bet then he caps you paid 2 bets and then folded, same as calling this and river.

If he doesnt cap(Would he cap ATo?) we might be ahead so can bet river and win or he folds.

Edited: I wanted to rearrange my post so its easier to read.

Redd 09-16-2005 12:12 PM

Re: One more...too weak?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Chances are you're still ahead on the turn, so I'd probably 3-bet the turn and just check/call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean check-call if capped? Because check-calling the river after he calls your 3-bet is weaksauce.

To OP: I'd lead-3bet the flop hoping to get raised (We can't be sure if Villain will continuation bet the flop in this big of a field, and check-raising traps lots of hands that are live against us anyways), and 3-bet the turn the way it went down (Villain's play strongly represents a A-broadway here).

Disconnected 09-16-2005 12:27 PM

Re: One more...too weak?
 
Lead the flop, if the pre-flop raiser was a later position, a check-raise would be good. You're almost definitely ahead here, but you have a somewhat vulnerable hand.

I'm not sure I'd call this pre-flop raise, even with all the cold-callers. On an unknown table (no reads provided), how many cold-callers do you all want to call a MP pre-flop raise from BB?

Edit: I'd also 3-bet the turn, which I think is OP's original question.

WildDan 09-16-2005 01:29 PM

Re: One more...too weak?
 
[ QUOTE ]
What i would do:
3Bet, If he caps then Fold. If he calls bet the river(and call an unlikly raise).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to have to disagree with the folding the cap. The pot is then huge, laying 17-to-1 I believe (it's 14 on the river currently, then add hero's 3-bet and villain's two bets for the cap) and giving you odds to draw to ~2.5 outs, which is more than enough for the chance that if you boat on the river you'll be good, and I still think there's a decent chance hero takes it UI.

I'd 3-bet turn, call the cap and depending on the feel of the river, either lead out and call a raise, or check/call.

Otherwise, I'd 3-bet the turn, and lead out on the flop definitely.

POKhER 09-16-2005 01:43 PM

Re: One more...too weak?
 
I totally ignored the pot odds on the "fold". Reason being though, was my mind was focused on "are we ahead if he CAPS?".

i don't think we are. But yeh if we 3bet we might aswell call the capp simply due to such a HUGE POT and a HUGE WIN if we boat up.

Calling one more bet seeing as the pot would be so huge is a Must i guess (ED miller "dont fold in huge pots for one bet").

But i still feel its spewing, then again 2BB for a 17BB pot or more? Maybe its not.

jrz1972 09-16-2005 01:46 PM

Re: One more...too weak?
 
Lead the flop. Bottom two is an extremely vulnerable hand. Villain might not be accomodating enough to raise, but it's our only chance at protection.

Reraise the turn. You got super-weak here.


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