6th Street Bet > For Value or Draw? Both?
 

Just sat down at PP Stud on my geriatric computer at my parent's house now that I'm home for the holidays and have nothing to do.

Villian in this hand is somewhat donkish, as his previous hand involved playing xxK and catching 10 K 10 on 5,6,7th respectively (and was heavily berated by the person with AA4 that didn't improve).

I've seen about 5 hands at this point, 3 of which went to showdown with incredibly loose passive play. That's why I decided to limp with this hand closing the action and with a live K and live spades. Specifically, take a look at the 6th street action.

7 Card Stud High ($3/$6), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $1 (converter)

Seat 1: $341.95
Hero: $165.50
Seat 3: $163.50
Seat 4: $162.20
Seat 5: $81
Seat 7: $162.50
Seat 8: $129

3rd Street - (1.17 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (2.50 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

5th Street - (2.25 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (4.25 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___raises
Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls

River - (10.25 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 3: xx xx 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___calls

Total pot: (12.25 BB)

Results: POSTED IN WHITE
Main Pot: $70.50 | Rake: $3

<font color="white"> Hero: [ 6s Ks Ts As Kc Tc Kd ] [ a full house, Kings full of tens -- Ks,Kc,Kd,Ts,Tc ]

Seat 3: [ 5s 2h 4s Ac 9h 3d 2d ] [ a straight, ace to five -- Ac,5s,4s,3d,2h ]
</font>

Re: 6th Street Bet > For Value or Draw? Both?
 

I like everything until 6th.

This is an easy value bet/call. The 3 bet is a little to agro here I think since you paired your door, that should be intimidating for him.

Re: 6th Street Bet > For Value or Draw? Both?
 

I agree with beta, hes gotta be betting with something here. You have a decent looking board and hes still betting, your probably in trouble.

Re: 6th Street Bet > For Value or Draw? Both?
 

Raise 3rd. You should be ahead of his range and you want to play heads-up against him. If some other call that’s fine too.

Just call 6th. There’s practically nothing he can be raising with that you beat.

Check-raise the river. People freeze up more often than not if you bet into them on the river like that, so unless you have a reason to believe that he’s aggro on the river a check-raise is best.

Also, I don’t get the title of your post. What’s with the “for draw”?

Re: 6th Street Bet > For Value or Draw? Both?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise 3rd. You should be ahead of his range and you want to play heads-up against him. If some other call that’s fine too.

[/ QUOTE ]
Play HU with a three-flush? Personally, I'd like some callers to pump up the pot odds. I call here.

Re: 6th Street Bet > For Value or Draw? Both?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise 3rd. You should be ahead of his range and you want to play heads-up against him. If some other call that’s fine too.

[/ QUOTE ]
Play HU with a three-flush? Personally, I'd like some callers to pump up the pot odds. I call here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read 7CSFAP...

Re: 6th Street Bet > For Value or Draw? Both?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Read 7CSFAP...

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't have that book, and I don't intend to buy it very soon. I've read West's and Kammen's books, and they don't advocate raising with a three-flush in early position. However, I'd be very interested in hearing what Mason and David have to say about it. If you don't mind, could you please elaborate a little further why raising is correct here?

Re: 6th Street Bet > For Value or Draw? Both?
 

You can play third street either way, both calling and raising is OK. I would prefer to raise in a looser ante structure and just call in a tighter ante structure.

6th street the original bet is fine, but when he comes over the top he has you beat here, just call.

Since you 3 bet 6th street I guess you might as well just bet the river now that you've improved. If you hadn't 3 bet 6th street you should check raise the river.

Re: 6th Street Bet > For Value or Draw? Both?
 

Read 7CS4AP. Really. Both of the books you cite have some really substandard advice.

Raising third puts more money in the pot with what is quite likely the best hand. If it gets heads-up, you're more likely to win by pairing one of your big cards than you are if the pot is multi-way. Playing aggressively early may set you up to buy the pot on fifth street if the other guy hasn't made significant improvement. Limping isn't terrible, but I raise third street about every time.

Re: 6th Street Bet > For Value or Draw? Both?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Read 7CSFAP...

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't have that book, and I don't intend to buy it very soon. I've read West's and Kammen's books, and they don't advocate raising with a three-flush in early position. However, I'd be very interested in hearing what Mason and David have to say about it. If you don't mind, could you please elaborate a little further why raising is correct here?

[/ QUOTE ]

So, there's a book out there, written by the best authors in poker, with advice you haven't seen in other books, and you refuse to read it?

The fact that you don't know why raising is a good idea should be reason enough for you to buy this book. Seriously.