Raise on the Flop v. Aggressive player
 

We know that when heads up, in LP with a draw, that raising on the Flop increases our +EV, if our opponent cooperates and just calls and then checks on the Turn.

I play live, primarily against the same 50 guys or so, 20 of which are my most common opponents. There are 2 who are aggressive and will NEVER let me make this play and I haven't been making it until recently.

One of these opponents open/raised in EP last week in our 20/40 game and everyone folded to me on the Button with J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and I called. Everyone else folded.

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I have the OESD with a backdoor flush draw.

EP bet and I raised and he re-raised and I called.
Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] bringing the flush on board.
EP checks, and I bet and he raises and I call.
River is the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] giving me the straight.
EP checks, I bet, he says: "Nice catch, but playing JTs that way loses money long term," and mucks his AK face up.

I do not show but ask him how he figures I was betting with nothing but a draw and he tells me to figure it out for myself.

Well, I know how he knew, but I never gave him credit for being so perceptive, only for being an aggressive player.

So, my question is: How do you deal with an opponent like him in these type situations?
He was willing to raise on the Turn when the flush came, in order to force me to "prove" I had the flush by re-raising.
He did, however, have the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] , giving him an out, so I only had 6 outs going into the River.

Re: Raise on the Flop v. Aggressive player
 

Betting the turn really really sucks, do you honestly think he's folding?

Also, what's with the coldcall?

Don't try for a free card against an aggressive opponent, and then when you do pay for your free card and you happen to get it, don't be a retard and not use it.

You lost like a zillion dollars on that hand.

Re: Raise on the Flop v. Aggressive player
 

The cold call preflop sucks(it might be good for metagame reasons if you play with these guys all the time though, just dont make it a habit)

Flop play is fine(this raise only works if you think you can scare him into checking the turn). Take the god damned free card on the turn.

Re: Raise on the Flop v. Aggressive player
 

Your hand is garbage HU vs an EP raiser.

The freecard raise is fine, but whenever someone 3bets it and then checks the turn, the check-raise is coming A LOT.

Dont bet the turn, you are behind and he's not folding.

Re: Raise on the Flop v. Aggressive player
 

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Nice catch, but playing JTs that way loses money long term.

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can't find fault in that analysis.

why did you call preflop?

why are you raising the flop when he "NEVER" lets you make this play? I think you should have capped the flop and taken a free turn.

this is a pretty easy read for him IMO, only other possible hand for you to have is KQs which you are capping the flop with all day long I assume.

also with the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in his hand and the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the board his turn raise is very easy. it is much more likely to be a simple value raise than a test as he can put you on JTs and he's a 3-1 favorite. what two spades can you coldcall with besides JTs?? KJ? see what I mean?

Re: Raise on the Flop v. Aggressive player
 

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The freecard raise is fine, but whenever someone 3bets it and then checks the turn, the check-raise is coming A LOT.


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i think it means villain is committed to showdown far more often than it means a c/r is coming. when the hell is anybody ever going to raise in EP, 3bet a two-broadway flop out of position, then check/fold the turn?

Re: Raise on the Flop v. Aggressive player
 

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why did you call preflop?

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Because about 10-15% of the time when he open/raises 2-3 spots from the BB, it's with 78s etc. Any pair 77 or higher also.



[/ QUOTE ]why are you raising the flop when he "NEVER" lets you make this play?

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Because he knows that I know that he never lets his opponent get away with that......

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I think you should have capped the flop and taken a free turn.

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The only way I would have got a free card, is if the spade came.


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this is a pretty easy read for him IMO, only other possible hand for you to have is KQs which you are capping the flop with all day long I assume.

also with the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in his hand and the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the board his turn raise is very easy. it is much more likely to be a simple value raise than a test as he can put you on JTs and he's a 3-1 favorite. what two spades can you coldcall with besides JTs?? KJ? see what I mean?

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Oh yes! I shall not play this situation this bad again. Promise. [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: Raise on the Flop v. Aggressive player
 

"Maybe single people eat crackers, I don't know. Frankly, I don't want to know."

Precious! I'm going to remember that one. [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: Raise on the Flop v. Aggressive player
 

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Betting the turn really really sucks, do you honestly think he's folding?

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Actually, I can't remember ever making this move against him and he knows that I know that he will not let someone get away with a free card play, so I was so sure that he was sure I had just made my flush.........
Just think how much action I get the next time, when I really do have the flush! At least I hope, but, I probably won't, unless he has the Ace, and then,......well the fourth suit will fall on the River, won't it.

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Also, what's with the coldcall?

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See my thread above about his opening standards.

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Don't try for a free card against an aggressive opponent, and then when you do pay for your free card and you happen to get it, don't be a retard and not use it.

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You know that silly stuff they teach you in the books, about thinking about what he thinks you have and what he thinks you think he thinks you have and outplaying him based upon thinking deeper than he's thinking.........it's nothing but stinking thinking. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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You lost like a zillion dollars on that hand.

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Actually, I got lucky and made my str8 on the River, however, I hear you.

Re: Raise on the Flop v. Aggressive player
 

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why did you call preflop?

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Because about 10-15% of the time when he open/raises 2-3 spots from the BB, it's with 78s etc. Any pair 77 or higher also.


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Heh, he shania'd you.