a thought on tipping dealers
 

tipping is a sore subject so i thought i would revive it.

since some card rooms have shuffling machines about five more hands an hour are dealt. and dealers have less hand work to do that affects the health of their wrists and hands.
doesnt the more hands per hour equate to a raise for the dealers and less work to boot. should tips be lessend.
most would say no i think. but what if technology brought the speed of the game to 90 hands an hour. should dealers reap that new reward as well. if not are we tipping the amount for the hand or are we paying to increase the dealers hourly rate. if so what to.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

if dealer are giving out more hands/hr because of a tech gizmo, my tips will certainly decrease a little bit.

why should a crappy dealer get more tips just because he/she can work a machine?

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

I don't know, Ray, but I don't mind throwing the dealer a buck or two when I win a pot. They're working people, and I appreciate it when they do their job well. And as far as the auto shufflers go, we benefit from that device too, especially when we're paying time charges.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

Ray,
This advance has offset inflation a little. In most jobs you get raises over time to keep pace with inflation so wouldn't it follow that dealers should also get an increase in pay over time?

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

I dunno, Ray. Another way to look at it is that if technology speeds up the game to 90 hands per hour, then your earn is going to go way up, so you also reap these benefits. I think that toking dealers by the hand can encourage some of them to want to deal as efficiently as possible, so that they get the most money possible (and those deserve the money, since they are making you more money). Of course, most dealers are too retarded to notice any of this, and fail to realize that time = money.

Then again, if the games are too fast, I think you'll end up playing smaller games, and your earn will go down, since the live ones will get broke too quickly, much like playing too big of games in markets that can't support it. If this is the case, then I would agree that tipping per hand would become very bad. In fact, there is more than just a little merit to this, and I probably lean a little towards this argument, but I figured I would present both sides.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

The tip to hand ratio remains the same for me with or without the shuffling machine. I give a buck a pot unless the pot is very small (blinds only or one bet on the flop heads up). I am actually keeping track of my tips this year and so far (including floorpeople), my tips are over 2.00 an hour.
I think the machines are a Godsend, especially for the older dealers at Mirage who are really, really slow with the hand shuffling.

LGPG

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

Hell, I imagine that dealers could be nearly removed altogether in the near future. Think about it - if you have chips with RFID tags in them, and cards with RFID tags in them, and little "zones" in front of each player where they put their hand and one where they put their bet, it wouldn't take much of a sophisticated computer to keep the game running smoothly - nobody would be able to short the pot, and it could read hands for you to determine who won; any problems with bet sizes or anything else and the computer could turn on a red light to alert a floorman.

All the dealer would have to do is distribute cards and put the cards in the shufflemajigger after each hand (and even that might be able to be automated sometime)

And then there would be burning debates on the 2+2 forums over whether you should throw the computer a buck or two each time you win a pot... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

Be careful...
http://www.joblo.com/wallpapers1/CS101_800x600.jpg

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

ONE of my dealer friends at commerce told me poker players are the cheapest tippers...thats why she is on the pai gow section!

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=8644628

"TOKYO (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp. (7203.T: Quote, Profile, Research) aims to start selling robots that can help look after elderly people or serve tea to guests by 2010, the Asahi daily reported on Tuesday.

Japan's top automaker sees a declining birthrate and aging population leading to growing demand for robots that can help in tasks such as child care and nursing care, the report said.

Toyota will soon set up a liaison committee to develop technology for the robots with group firms, including car parts maker Denso Corp. (6902.T: Quote, Profile, Research) , it added. "


http://wwwi.reuters.com/images/mdf573850.jpg


hmmmm.......

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

a crappy dealer shouldn't get ANY tips -

However, there is a lot more to dealing than putting out the cards. Tips should be about running the game, calling the hands correctly, paying attention etc.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

Ray,

You make a good point about the 5 (or about 17%) additional hands per hour.

From now on, instead of a dollar, I'm only tipping 86 cents per hand.

Sparks

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

$2 an hour including floor people?

Babe, you must not be winning your fair share of pots. 35 hands an hour. 10 players in the game. you should be winning more than 3 hands per hour mathematically. If you adjust for the fact that better players probably win less pots (but more money), you should still be close to 3 pots per hour and therefore 3 dollars per hour in tips to dealers alone.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

Ray,

The shuffling machines are for the house to make more money. So, the players should expect a drop in rake, but this is not likely since the casino is trying to increase it's take on the game. But, even if they don't pass on the savings to the players, maybe this will entice some more casinos to have a poker room instead of a few rows of slot machines.

As for the dealers, they are entitled to make a living wage. So, to calculate what you think they should be making you take the 90 hands and divide that into the hourly rate you believe they should be making. Furthermore, if dealer tips do move up, just like any other profession, the competition for dealers competing for jobs will bring us the better dealers.

Oh yeah, when are you ever going to Las Vegas again or even come here to Illinois? I could lead you to places where there is some real good food. There still might be hope for you.

Good Luck

Mark

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

Pokerbabe,

If everyone tipped like you, and the house was dealing 90 hands an hour, I'd give up playing poker and become a dealer.

Good Luck

Mark

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

In theory, the professional player is also making 17% more per hour from the extra hands played, and the casino makes more in rake. Why shouldn't the dealer benefit as well?

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

I guess the same argument could be said for not leaving a tip at Sizzler or Souplantation, the "service" is limited. My opinion is(and keep in mind, Im a very important person to ask about these things cause my word is worth its weight in say air) this is something that America will never rid itself of no matter how much things are automated, people in the food industry, or service industry will always make minimum wage, or close to it, because employers argue that they receive tips and this keeps the labor cost down. Mot people I assume are like me, even with bad service, I feel obliged to leave some gratuity for food, not because they deserve it, but because everyone does, and thats what keeps the tip train going, expectation.

So, unless the country, or a large part of it wakes up one day and says "Tips are for GOOD service", I dont really see any or much change.

BTW, very good idea for thought Ray.

tobdog

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

Are shift buttons or capital letters illegal in Montana? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

I think that toking dealers by the hand can encourage some of them to want to deal as efficiently as possible, so that they get the most money possible (and those deserve the money, since they are making you more money). Of course, most dealers are too retarded to notice any of this, and fail to realize that time = money.

Yikes....most dealers I work are acutely aware of this.
Maybe I just work with bunch of not-too-retarded dealers.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hell, I imagine that dealers could be nearly removed altogether in the near future. Think about it - if you have chips with RFID tags in them, and cards with RFID tags in them, and little "zones" in front of each player where they put their hand and one where they put their bet, it wouldn't take much of a sophisticated computer to keep the game running smoothly - nobody would be able to short the pot, and it could read hands for you to determine who won; any problems with bet sizes or anything else and the computer could turn on a red light to alert a floorman.

All the dealer would have to do is distribute cards and put the cards in the shufflemajigger after each hand (and even that might be able to be automated sometime)

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, what you're thinking is too complicated. There are already totally computerized tables in Florida with no dealer, no cards, no chips. Everything is on a little screen. It's basically party poker with everyone in the same physical room.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

"close to 3 pots per hour and therefore 3 dollars per hour in tips to dealers alone. "

Hi skp. Remember, I don't tip on "small pots" where there is a flop and only one bet. I pick up more than my share of those tip-free ones. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] My actual number is 2.20 per hour this year so far.

LGPG

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]

Actually, what you're thinking is too complicated. There are already totally computerized tables in Florida with no dealer, no cards, no chips. Everything is on a little screen. It's basically party poker with everyone in the same physical room.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? Because I had thought about something like that before but came to the conclusion that nobody would want to play like that in a live setting. Weird.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

As a dealer I have enjoyed our new shuffling machines to the fullest. I am now up to 20 hands every half hour vs 18 manually shuffling and benefit greatly with the tips. At first the players were skeptical of the shuffling machines but now it isn't even something that is discussed about on the table. My tips have increased due to more hands an hour. No player has griped to me about playing more hands and therefor having to tip more often =o)

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

My casino pool shares their tips, so it doesn't matter as the percentage of tip/pot I win is still the same.

But even though the machine does all the shuffling, it's the dealers who have to keep the game in line, not act prematurely in dealing board cards, and to keep the flow of the game going fast. This still doesn't affect the ratio of tip/pot IMHO.

Lawrence

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you serious?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. There have been several posts about them in the B&M forum. I haven't seen these myself, though. I believe they are at the Hard Rock in tampa.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

I think if tipping is affecting earn rate significantly enough for someone to complain about it, they need to move up a level.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

Without independant dealers, do we have b&m games at higher levels? Does it affect the poker boom of the last few years?

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

Wait, are they going to make robots that play the trombone?

This reminds me of that Saturday Night Live commercial for robot insurance where the old people were being attacked by robots.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

Tipping excessively is like throwing away thousands a year for a professional player. This effects me significantly, but if it doesn't effect you, feel free to send me a check. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Thanks!

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

Many dealers just don't get this, or they wouldn't fart around when in the box. This includes not paying attention, dealing slowly, arguing with players, fumbling with change, pulling bets in strangley (or not at all), and talking. Many say they are efficient, but are full of it. Granted, the dealers around me are some of the best, for the most part, but there is always room for improvement. Still, in a place like a casino, it seems obvious to me that they would want to hustle for as much money possible, just like everyone else does. I also think that pooling tips hurts this efficiency.

As for the dealers you work with (probably in Colorado by your elevation location), I did experience good dealers up there, and they seem to get tipped very well. This was five years ago up in Blackhawk.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

I would always tip the robots, in order to remain on their good graces when they take over the world. It is very important to welcome our Robotic Overlords.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

when i play in san jose. i stiff all the dealers and tell them i am staked by you and that is your instructions. when
up by lucky chances i say it diablo's rules. works great.


seriously tipping dealers is proper.each gives what he feels is right.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

No wonder people always ask "where my sidekick is," referring to "the old man." Of course, this is also why everyone hates me. Sometimes I can't catch a break.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

I usually just tip them a buck, if I win a bigger pot in relation to the limit im playing, I might tip 2 dollars.

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

I've never dealt but have worked in the industry and have had many conversations with dealers. With a $1 toke on a decent pot being more or less standard, dealer income has been stagnent over the years. During this period we have had some inflation, thus their ability to make a decent living isn't what it was.

The three or four extra hands per hour gained using shuffle machines makes up for part of this, but some players seem to tip less since "the machine" gave them the lucky cards.

Dealers also have to put up with customers such as Iris and Frenchy, so being a poker dealer isn't easy. That said, the best ones with the necessary tempermant do quite well, as they should.

Regards,

Rick

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

"The three or four extra hands per hour gained using shuffle machines makes up for part of this, but some players seem to tip less since "the machine" gave them the lucky cards."

Plus, at Commerce, the switchover, in the mid-limits section, from a time collection to raking the pot has meant almost all blinds now chop, so there are fewer flopped hands per hour than there would have been had they stayed with a time collection.

(However, there is also now a lot more walking, which means shorter handed games, which means more hands per hour.)

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

[ QUOTE ]

why should a crappy dealer get more tips just because he/she can work a machine?

[/ QUOTE ]
why are you tipping crappy dealers in the first place?

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

http://img155.echo.cx/img155/9831/dealer7wc.jpg

I've got this guy up to 350 hands per hour, but he's still not getting a tip from me. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

\"Tipping excessively\"- well, no [censored]!
 

I wasn't talking about "excessively"

Re: a thought on tipping dealers
 

<font color="blue"> which means shorter handed games, which means more hands per hour.) </font>

and short-handed usually means smaller pots, which can also reduce tips.