WA/WB, bet the river?
 

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

Villain is a LAG, known to bet the river with or without things. Is it worth betting here since it is HIGHLY unlikely it will be checked behind, it will only get when I am beat or he is feeling frisky.

Re: WA/WB, bet the river?
 

This probably doesn't qualify as a WA/WB situation. If you're ahead here villain probably has 6+ outs.

I probably just fold on the flop, but if you're going to continue with the hand, I think you should checkraise the flop.

Re: WA/WB, bet the river?
 

Fold this PF. 55 Does not play well in multi-way pots only containg 3-4 players - especially with a LAG behind who has a good chance of raising.

Given that you didn't C/R the flop and lead the turn (I think I would call down if he 3-bets the flop).

Given how you made it to the river, yes C/C is fine, but you really shouldn't be in a position like that.

Re: WA/WB, bet the river?
 

You do realize this is 5-handed right?

[ QUOTE ]
Fold this PF. 55 Does not play well in multi-way pots only containg 3-4 players - especially with a LAG behind who has a good chance of raising.

Given that you didn't C/R the flop and lead the turn (I think I would call down if he 3-bets the flop).

Given how you made it to the river, yes C/C is fine, but you really shouldn't be in a position like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: WA/WB, bet the river?
 

'You do realize this is 5-handed right'

One guy has already limped by the time action is on hero, likely to be at least 3 handed if he calls or raises...

Re: WA/WB, bet the river?
 

What about a limp re-raise before the flop if we are confident of our read on the villian? I think this would give us back control of the hand, which is critical in a five-handed situation.

Re: WA/WB, bet the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What about a limp re-raise before the flop if we are confident of our read on the villian? I think this would give us back control of the hand, which is critical in a five-handed situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

well it's heads up, and that's a great way to tie overs to the pot.. I hate this

Re: WA/WB, bet the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You do realize this is 5-handed right?

[ QUOTE ]
Fold this PF. 55 Does not play well in multi-way pots only containg 3-4 players - especially with a LAG behind who has a good chance of raising.

Given that you didn't C/R the flop and lead the turn (I think I would call down if he 3-bets the flop).

Given how you made it to the river, yes C/C is fine, but you really shouldn't be in a position like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm yes. It would be fine in most full ring games at this level, and marginal in a 6-handed game where all the players were very loose passive. In this game, I don't think twice about folding it.

Re: WA/WB, bet the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Given that you didn't C/R the flop and lead the turn (I think I would call down if he 3-bets the flop).

Given how you made it to the river, yes C/C is fine, but you really shouldn't be in a position like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if c/ring the flop is really the best idea. With that board there are a lot of hands that are probably about even equity wise with hero's hand. AK,AQ, most hands with two hearts, OESDs, etc because all of these hands will be overcards+straigh/flush draw against heros hand. The LAG isn't going to lay any of these down if he has them, so there isn't much you can do to protect your hand. The only other reason to raise is if we have an equity advantage, which I think with the possible draws plus the times villian has a bigger pair probably make it a -EV raise.

I like check call, if villian has any of the draws he won't take a free card on the turn anyways, maybe the turn would be a spot to c/r, but you set yourself up to be outplayed if villian will 3-bet with a worse hand. He'll bet on the river with a busted draw, so I like the c/c there as well.

Re: WA/WB, bet the river?
 

Preflop is close for me, if the blinds are tight I raise.

C/r the flop, put some pressure on the villian, don't let him dictate how the hand goes.

Re: WA/WB, bet the river?
 

I suppose it depends on exactly how LAG villain is. Someone run a PokerStove sim with 55 on that board vs top 20%, 30% 40% etc. of hands. This is probably a reasonable sim, as villain will basically always continuation bet the flop here, so we don't have to discount for that. Yea, he might be getting decent odds to call on the flop, but a turn call would be clearly incorrect for most of his hands that are behind us (which he will make most of the time).

Re: WA/WB, bet the river?
 

I usually complete small pockets after one limper in with a few to act, as long as I know they're poor players.

BTW to the OP: I wouldn't call this WA/WB but if you trust you're read I like c/c,c/c,c/c. I'd change seats ASAP tho.

Re: WA/WB, bet the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
C/r the flop, put some pressure on the villian, don't let him dictate how the hand goes.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a pretty wide range I used, about the top 30%ish of hands. I think our equity here is usually below our fair share, even though the LAG has a wide range. If you c/r, you are probably losing money, you aren't going to push the LAG off of many of these hands. He certainly isn't folding most straight draws, even the gutshots before showdown, and obviously not a flush draw. It give him the option to 3-bet, which if he has a bigger pair, flush draw, OESD, overs+gutshot gives him an equity advantage and we a losing even more money in a relatively small pot.

I also think that if you look at the 6-out type hands he could have, you just don't gain much by getting him to fold before the river with the pot this small.

I personally don't like the flop c/r, maybe the turn, but it puts you in a tough spot when c/red and now the pot is big enough that you can't afford to make a bad laydown when you really probably should fold to a 3-bet.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

345,510 games 0.171 secs 2,020,526 games/sec

Board: Th 2c Jh
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 60.6438 % 60.51% 00.14% { 55+, A2s+, K5s+, Q7s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, A5o+, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }
Hand 2: 39.3562 % 39.22% 00.14% { 5h5s }


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