when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

originally posted on MTT area, but after a good suggestion, posted here as well (as this is actually a STT...) Payout is 3rd $50, 2nd $150, 1st $300.

I caught a lot of crap for this one, but i think it was the optimal play. Down to four (2 pay, 3 gets money back) at live tourney. blinds 200-400. I had been playing selectively aggressive, picking blinds up slightly higher than the rest of the table, so that they wouldnt play back. The last pot I won with a continuation bet on a paired board. Table was fairly tight, but didnt want them to not give me credit for a hand, so i wasnt overdoing it.

BB was a good player. We had clashed early on, and i had made him back down. He had just doubled up and was 2nd in chips to me.

Hero, button, (7100) raises to 900 with 7d 4s.
Villain, BB, (4500) calls 500 more. (seems like a funny amount to raise, but this slightly above min raise was table standard, and was working. Besides, a larger raise would pot commit me before I knew what was what.)

Pot 2000.

Flop 7c 3h 3c.
BB checks, I bet 1000. BB min-CR's to 2000. Pot 5000. I have 5200 left. I put him on PP, down to 55, or two high clubs as most likely holdings.

A clear all in or fold here, right? Though I could legitimatelly be in really bad shape, I dont think hes giving me much credit for a hand with this flop, and may think A high is best. What do you guys do?

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

SNG strategy is quite different.

Plan A: Call and spike a 7 on the turn.

Plan B: Try to get to the river and then put him all-in. He's gonna need a really strong hand to call. Hope for scare cards along the way.

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

[ QUOTE ]
originally posted on MTT area, but after a good suggestion, posted here as well (as this is actually a STT...) Payout is 3rd $50, 2nd $150, 1st $300.

I caught a lot of crap for this one, but i think it was the optimal play. Down to four (2 pay, 3 gets money back) at live tourney. blinds 200-400. I had been playing selectively aggressive, picking blinds up slightly higher than the rest of the table, so that they wouldnt play back. The last pot I won with a continuation bet on a paired board. Table was fairly tight, but didnt want them to not give me credit for a hand, so i wasnt overdoing it.

BB was a good player. We had clashed early on, and i had made him back down. He had just doubled up and was 2nd in chips to me.

Hero, button, (7100) raises to 900 with 7d 4s.
Villain, BB, (4500) calls 500 more. (seems like a funny amount to raise, but this slightly above min raise was table standard, and was working. Besides, a larger raise would pot commit me before I knew what was what.)

Pot 2000.

Flop 7c 3h 3c.
BB checks, I bet 1000. BB min-CR's to 2000. Pot 5000. I have 5200 left. I put him on PP, down to 55, or two high clubs as most likely holdings.

A clear all in or fold here, right? Though I could legitimatelly be in really bad shape, I dont think hes giving me much credit for a hand with this flop, and may think A high is best. What do you guys do?

[/ QUOTE ]


I easily fold this pre-flop. Your preflop raise was terrible. He has 3 to 1 odds to call preflop.

Given he checks to you on the flop...

I would have pushed the flop. A bet of 1000 invites him to come over the top. A bet you probably have to call.

Given the check-raise situation, I think you have to push. This definitely depends on stack sizes of other two players.

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

[ QUOTE ]
SNG strategy is quite different.

Plan A: Call and spike a 7 on the turn.

Plan B: Try to get to the river and then put him all-in. He's gonna need a really strong hand to call. Hope for scare cards along the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you look at the pot size and relative remaining stack sizes?

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

I can see how stack size is important. they were both around 2k, not real threats... me and BB were playing for 1st, they were hanging on.

As for pot odds, this table had thrown them out. The blinds were so high that min raises were working. If a bet costs you almost 25% of your stack, and a minraise almost 50%, in the case of the BB, I dont view pot odds as nearly as important. thoughts?

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SNG strategy is quite different.

Plan A: Call and spike a 7 on the turn.

Plan B: Try to get to the river and then put him all-in. He's gonna need a really strong hand to call. Hope for scare cards along the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you look at the pot size and relative remaining stack sizes?

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. calling is moot. my big question is: are we giving the BB credit for a hand here or not? is the min raise strength or weakness?

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

[ QUOTE ]
This definitely depends on stack sizes of other two players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

there's not really enough information here, but a min-check-raise is typically strength.

i understand what you mean about the preflop play--- but min-raising with 74o is not good.

if it was working, then be prepared to let your hand go when someone calls... checking this flop would have been your best move-- in hindsight, obviously... i would rather fold this preflop than min-raise though. i don't even min-raise with my premium hands--- hands that i where i WANT someone to come along.

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

I agree completely. Under normal circumstances I never do this, take much the same line you do. But this was their convention (not guys i normally play with). They were respecting the 500 raise with a 400 BB. If a 500 chip bet gets the same respect that a 1000 chip bet gets, why send a man to do a boys work?

with that said, 74o is not the raising hand of choice, but is he giving me credit for hitting anything with that flop?

Re: when the right play looks like a donkey play
 

stack sizes of other two are around 2k each. they were hanging on.