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-   -   Study program? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=407930)

12-30-2005 07:32 PM

Study program?
 
I have been playing for a bit, way over my head (I have more money then knowledge or ability), and have not really "studied" yet but for playing. I have bought a ton of poker books, and read few to none... Sad I know. Well, I'm intending to get serious, and curious what books you guys would recommend for a serious study program. Importantly I'm really interested in the ORDER to read these books as again I've bought most of them, but I use my confusion as to where to start as an excuse to thumb through them all repeatedly but read none... After you all help me I'll be out of excuses [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Thanks!

I should mention that I'm playing both cash games and tourneys, but risking (and losing) a lot more in the cash game I'm in, so I'd love suggestions for both, but cash should probably come first.

If someone can point me to an old post that covered this that would be great too (though many don't cover the order to read them in which is crucial to me).

Thanks!

deacsoft 12-30-2005 08:48 PM

Re: Study program?
 
Limit? No-Limit? Hold'em? Stud? What?
What books do you have?

12-30-2005 08:51 PM

Re: Study program?
 
Sorry, I thought NL was implied, my bad. I'm playing in some tourneys on-line ($100 or $200 sit and goes, 9 or 6 handed), but risking much more money in a cash $25/$50 game that's way over my head (but it's all friends so I'm kind of committed). So I guess it's defintely NL, with both cash and tourneys relevant, but cash especially so. Does that help?

12-30-2005 08:51 PM

Re: Study program?
 
I would always start with the Theory of Poker by Sklansky, since it teaches you all the basics of the game.

From there on it depends on what type of game you want to play. Iīm just starting to play low-limit HE and Millerīs Small Stakes Holdīem really helped me a lot.

12-30-2005 08:54 PM

Re: Study program?
 
Thanks!

I'm playing only NL in some tourneys on-line ($100 or $200 sit and goes, 9 or 6 handed), but risking much more money in a cash $25/$50 game that's way over my head (but it's all friends so I'm kind of committed). So I guess both cash and tourneys are relevant, but cash especially so.

deacsoft 12-30-2005 09:00 PM

Re: Study program?
 
Theory of Poker
Pot-Limit and No-Limit Poker
Harrington on Hold'em 1&2
Phil Gordon's Little Green Book
Kill Phil
Tournament Poker for Advanced Players

Jbrochu 12-30-2005 09:01 PM

Re: Study program?
 
[ QUOTE ]
risking much more money in a cash $25/$50 game that's way over my head (but it's all friends so I'm kind of committed).

[/ QUOTE ]

You're playing no limit with $25/50 blinds as a beginner? I guess you really do have deep pockets.

For no limit cash and tourney I would recommend the following in order:

1) HoH1
2) HoH2
3) Pot Limit and No Limit Poker
4) Theory of Poker

You could also start with Little Green Book. If you like examples start with HoH, if you like essays then maybe Little Green Book.

I think Theory of Poker is best left to after the basics have sunk in a bit. You could just read it through once before starting on the others and then go back and read it in depth carefully when you're done with the others.

12-30-2005 09:06 PM

Re: Study program?
 
Interesting. One of my questions was Theory of Poker vs. Tournament Poker for Advanced Players (which to read first), but you are pretty clear!

I don't know what Kill Phil is but it sounds different...

Thanks, very helpful.

12-30-2005 09:09 PM

Re: Study program?
 
Interesting, already getting disagreements. Some others put Theory of Poker first, but you make your reasons pretty clear.

You think HOH1 and HOH2 even if cash games are my 70/30 focus?

Thanks!

deacsoft 12-30-2005 09:14 PM

Re: Study program?
 
Theory of Poker is the most important poker related book you'll probably ever read. It's widely regarded as the best poker book there is today.

12-30-2005 09:16 PM

Re: Study program?
 
But does that mean it should be read first?

Jbrochu 12-30-2005 09:18 PM

Re: Study program?
 
[ QUOTE ]
You think HOH1 and HOH2 even if cash games are my 70/30 focus?

[/ QUOTE ]

In my opinion, yes. Part 1 really is continued in the begining of HoH2. You could stop there and move on to the other books then go back and cover the end game stuff of HoH2 later.

For me, there was nothing like working through all the example hands in HoH to help learn the postflop play you're going to have to master to play NL cash. (These forums are another excellent study resource for that.)

It's just my opinion, but I think it's more important to get the basics down like proper hand selection, etc. before you move on to "Theory of Poker."

And to be honest with you, "Theory of Poker" was a difficult read for me. Well worthwhile, but difficult to grasp quickly for me anyway.

12-30-2005 09:21 PM

Re: Study program?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Theory of Poker
Pot-Limit and No-Limit Poker
Harrington on Hold'em 1&2
Phil Gordon's Little Green Book
Kill Phil
Tournament Poker for Advanced Players

[/ QUOTE ]

That is THE list, no doubt there. I'd revise the order a bit, though:

Pot-Limit and No-Limit Poker
Kill Phil
Phil Gordon's Little Green Book
Tournament Poker for Advanced Players
Theory of Poker (read this one twice)
Harrington on Hold'em 1&2

12-30-2005 09:23 PM

Re: Study program?
 
Great, thanks.

12-30-2005 09:25 PM

Re: Study program?
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Theory of Poker is the most important poker related book you'll probably ever read. It's widely regarded as the best poker book there is today.


[/ QUOTE ]But does that mean it should be read first?

[/ QUOTE ]

Conventional wisdom is you won't understand most of what Theory of Poker is talking about unless you've already internalised the basic concepts.

That said, most readers have said they didn't really "get" Theory of Poker until the 2nd or 3rd time through, anyway.

12-30-2005 09:26 PM

Re: Study program?
 
Any elaboration as to why? I just read up on Kill Phil (had heard of or bought all the others), that sounds strange to read second (particularly for cash games). And Theory of poker next to last, and after Tournament Poker for Advanced players (twice I get)?

This is kind of fun, who would've thought people wouldn't perfectly agree!

Still super helpful, thanks.

Jbrochu 12-30-2005 09:31 PM

Re: Study program?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I just read up on Kill Phil (had heard of or bought all the others), that sounds strange to read second (particularly for cash games). And Theory of poker next to last, and after Tournament Poker for Advanced players (twice I get)?


[/ QUOTE ]

Since you're primarily focused on NL cash and it's costing you $75 an orbit, forget about "Kill Phil" and "Tournament Poker for Advanced Players" for the time being.



[ QUOTE ]
This is kind of fun, who would've thought people wouldn't perfectly agree!

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you happen to read about that property I have for sale? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

12-30-2005 09:33 PM

Re: Study program?
 
I'm going to read about that property after I read the Theory of Poker twice [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


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