Party 2-4 good flop stab?
 

Here are the notes I took on the one villain this session (although this hand is so multiway that it probably doesn't especially matter):

The first line are the things I saw him do preflop.
The other lines are specific things I saw him do post-flop.


J2s,A6o,K4s,overdefends (T4s SB,A2o SB),cold calls (A6o,AKo)
turn raise shots w/tp+nk on 3-flush board
flop calls *RIDICULOUS*
turn donk shots w/gutshot on scare cards
turn donk shots w/nothing on scare cards
turn donk shots w/2nd pr+nk on 3-flush board
shots on river w/tp+nk on super-coordinated board if checked to
bets AK-high every street on super-coordinated board when checked to>


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button folds, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 folds.

River: (7.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

Re: Party 2-4 good flop stab?
 

I would probably raise preflop here to force the button out.

Re: Party 2-4 good flop stab?
 

That's one way to go. If it were maybe 1 fewer limper to me then I would have too.

Re: Party 2-4 good flop stab?
 

take your free card on the flop...

bet the river...

Re: Party 2-4 good flop stab?
 

Raise preflop, take a free card on the flop (though I make a continuation bet here far too often), bet the turn, bet the river.

Re: Party 2-4 good flop stab?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would probably raise preflop here to force the button out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? How valuable is having the button in this 7 way pot? Will a raise force the button out anyway? Will the button call if you don't raise always?


I think raising for the button is really not a great reason to raise here. Our hand plays poorly multiway and I think limping here is pretty clearly correct.

Re: Party 2-4 good flop stab?
 

[ QUOTE ]
take your free card on the flop...

bet the river...

[/ QUOTE ]

Notice that you should bet the river and call a c/r by this particular momo.

Re: Party 2-4 good flop stab?
 

My reasons for raising PF is due to these factors:
-I like to controll the large pots, forcing the button out makes it easier to take a free card at some point if needed. Getting a free card in a big pot is very nice. So the main reason why I would raise a hand that doesnt do well multiway is position.
-Also being seen as an aggressor in this pot makes you more likely to be able to control the field.

This all evolves around button being a player that doesnt call raises in big multiway pots pf.

Re: Party 2-4 good flop stab?
 

I like this line, but I am inclined to check the river like Yerma, probably something I need to work on.

Re: Party 2-4 good flop stab?
 

I am not saying this is correct, its only what would help me play post-flop better in a this kind of pot. I am more inclined to raise cards I limp with when the pot turns large.

Re: Party 2-4 good flop stab?
 

PFR here is a waste of time, like the good man W.Deranged said, this is a multiway pot with a hand that dont work great in multiway situations. We dont have the equity edge we need to make raising preflop correct.

Flop bet is not profitable here , much better to check it through. Yes, betting might buy us some outs and fold Ax and MAYBE some small PP's that missed but definately not enough to be profitable. On top of that we got 2 to a flush out there and are most likely behind.

Bet the turn obviously.

River is very player dependent, the standard line against a monkey (from your description thats what he seems to be) I see this as a pretty clear bet/call a raise.

Just to return to the title of your post: not the right place for a flop stab, too many people, plus the flush draw and no real fold equity.

Re: Party 2-4 good flop stab?
 

I need to reread SSHE.

RESULTS
 

I was shown the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and I lose.