Passive tables - how to play?
 

Hiya!

I've got two related questions about passive tables in general.

What data do you need to classify a table as very passive, and how do you adjust your play to these tables?

Would it be OK to start limping in EP with stuff like Axs? Or is that just stupid?! I suppose that playing more drawing type hands in POS could be useful since passive opponents will let me draw on the cheap. But perhaps there is more to it?!

Also, sometimes I see posts where TABLES are labeled with "average VP$IP" and PFR numbers. Where do these come from? I know that PT will give these data for induvidual players, but how does it come about for tables? Is that done by finding a table where you have stats on ALL players, and averaging it out? Or is there any more direct way to that end?

I'm sorry, and I really suck. Also, I've got the stats to support that assessment...

Hopefully some solid advice here will help me suck less

/Zal3

Re: Passive tables - how to play?
 

I look for loose tables more than passive tables. If I'm at a table for an hour and the average V$PIP is >30%, then I'm a lucky man. If the average V$PIP < 20%, I should probably move tables.

As for passive or aggressive, if the table is loose, then it's nice to have it be aggressive preflop with a >7% average preflop raise at the table. I can then sit, wait, and expect some action when I come in for a raise with good starting hands and/or good position.

Post flop aggression close to 1.0 would be passive. But that number is less important than observing how many continuation bets get called. A lot of tables end up with one or two policemen who call continuation bets with a TPWK hand like Axs where all they got on the flop was a weak pair of Aces. Some of those guys even call a turn bet just to see if you're bluffing in late position with garbage (which sometimes I like to do). THESE guys are a bit of a pain because you need to show down a real hand. So, after they snap off a continuation bet or two, you just have to wait for a real hand like TPTK AK, or an over pair, then bet the flop, the turn and value bet the river and get paid of by their AQ or JK TPWK hand. Of course, they hit pay dirt once in a while, but they often telegraph that by betting a big hand instead of calling like they do with the weaker ones. These guys are pretty rare, however, on-line. Most will fold marginal hands to a decent continuation bet if they miss the flop and you have position on them.

Re: Passive tables - how to play?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I look for loose tables more than passive tables. If I'm at a table for an hour and the average V$PIP is >30%, then I'm a lucky man. If the average V$PIP < 20%, I should probably move tables.

As for passive or aggressive, if the table is loose, then it's nice to have it be aggressive preflop with a >7% average preflop raise at the table. I can then sit, wait, and expect some action when I come in for a raise with good starting hands and/or good position.

Post flop aggression close to 1.0 would be passive. But that number is less important than observing how many continuation bets get called. A lot of tables end up with one or two policemen who call continuation bets with a TPWK hand like Axs where all they got on the flop was a weak pair of Aces. Some of those guys even call a turn bet just to see if you're bluffing in late position with garbage (which sometimes I like to do). THESE guys are a bit of a pain because you need to show down a real hand. So, after they snap off a continuation bet or two, you just have to wait for a real hand like TPTK AK, or an over pair, then bet the flop, the turn and value bet the river and get paid of by their AQ or JK TPWK hand. Of course, they hit pay dirt once in a while, but they often telegraph that by betting a big hand instead of calling like they do with the weaker ones. These guys are pretty rare, however, on-line. Most will fold marginal hands to a decent continuation bet if they miss the flop and you have position on them.

[/ QUOTE ]


i posted this before but i'll say it again.

if you have gametime+ there's an option for colors. make the option for "VP$IP" and if it's >= 40% for a player, make the player's color green. <40% make it blue. (this is for 10 max full ring games). for table vp$ip make it green if >30%, red if <30%.

Re: Passive tables - how to play?
 

OK - good info on the data.

But how do I adjust my preflop play when I know that the table is very passive?
Is the key to limp more hands with drawing potential, or to raise more hands ("do the opposite of the table") or what?

/Zal3 - the true fishy sucker

Re: Passive tables - how to play?
 

You should definitely play all Axs and PP from EP if the table is very passive and some players use to take a flop.

Re: Passive tables - how to play?
 

I feel playing Ax from EP on a passive table is setting yourself up for trouble.

So you limp with the Ax and get to see the flop. An A hits so now you have top pair and a horribly weak kicker. What now?
Are you going to be the agressor and bet from early position with this pretty weak holding?
Are you going to try and check it down from here, basically adjusting to the table's passiveness?

I think both options are bad play. If you want to play that Ax from EP, I'd prefer raising with it. But my opinion is that by playing Ax you're setting yourself up to be facing tough decisions later on in the hand. Avoid those - fold Ax.

Re: Passive tables - how to play?
 

I'm was talking about Axs and looking to flop 2 pair, trips or a flush(draw) or a straight(draw).

Re: Passive tables - how to play?
 

Have you seen a table sustain a VPIP > 30 for very long? I'm lucky if I can see a table hold at > 23.