How many here would buy a book by Hoyt Corkins?
 

On NLHE tournament and strategy? I would be very interested in the thought processes behind he hyper-aggressive style and how he makes it work so well for him.

RZ

Re: How many here would buy a book by Hoyt Corkins?
 

Shouldn't be a very extensive book, just continue to pound on the short stacks when you have the chip lead with all-in raises. If you're called hope to get lucky with your 8-3 off or what have you. :-P

Re: How many here would buy a book by Hoyt Corkins?
 

I wouldn't buy it unless I heard good things about it. On the other hand, I would buy anything that Barry Greenstein or Chip Reese or Doyle Brunson wrote (not his online book) because they are top players and very intelligent people.

I don't have any reason, prima facie, to think Hoyt would write anything that is a meaningful contribution (accurate+original) to NL hold em strategy.

Re: How many here would buy a book by Hoyt Corkins?
 

Why are you asking this question? Is Hoyt planning on writing a book?

And to answer your question, there is no poker book that I would buy just because of an author's reputation, but I'd be willing to purchase any book that has received consistant good reviews.

Re: How many here would buy a book by Hoyt Corkins?
 

Hi Rowdy:

Hoyt occasionally posts to these forums, so perhaps we'll get an answer from him.

Best wishes,
Mason

Re: How many here would buy a book by Hoyt Corkins?
 

I have no knowledge of Corkins writing a book. There has been alot of talk on the Kill Phil book and Corkins was the most sucessful pro I could think of who uses that type of Allin strategy. He has also defintely been a thorn in Phil Hellmuths side as well, the recent WSOP TOC being a perfect example.

RZ

Re: How many here would buy a book by Hoyt Corkins?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Rowdy:

Hoyt occasionally posts to these forums, so perhaps we'll get an answer from him.

Best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know Corkins posted here, I see he is a recent addition. I also see he is a man of few words not only at the poker table but in the forums as well. I read all 12 posts he has made so far and I have already used more words in this 1 post then he did in all 12 of his. That makes me doubt a book would be forthcoming.

RZ

Re: How many here would buy a book by Hoyt Corkins?
 

I love Hoyt's play. But.... and this would apply to Hoyt or Gus Hansen, etc. How can you teach feel and aggression? I don't think you could capture the dynamic and context of their game in print. Like they say in pro sports. you can't teach speed.

Now watching this style being applied in say a 2 HR DVD with very informative voice over and supporting odds, outs, etc. would be worthwhile. Say a $100 SnG, the hands replayed just like they were in the tournament on screen.

I'd like to see a book from Hoyt on Razz. I know he made a final table 2 yrs ago?

Go HOYT!!!!

Re: How many here would buy a book by Hoyt Corkins?
 

Maybe a book on his life and his return to the game would be interesting. He seems like a really nice guy and seems to keep his cool at the table. His only mistake I have seen was in season II of the WPT at the Pokerstars Carribean Adventure when Hansen sucked out on him and he went on tilt and handed Hansen the title.

Re: How many here would buy a book by Hoyt Corkins?
 

Someone who wears a cowboy hat and owns cattle is damn cool in my opinion. The guy can definitely play. I would read his book.

Doyle Brunson
 

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't buy it unless I heard good things about it. On the other hand, I would buy anything that Barry Greenstein or Chip Reese or Doyle Brunson wrote (not his online book) because they are top players and very intelligent people. - /End Quote

Doyle Brunson ?? ... C'mon you must be kidding me, Yes He wrote a nice piece on Hold'em back in the late seventies, but that is it as to pokeradvice

Supersystem II is joke (The Doyle Brunson part that is .. and come to think of it also the Caro part, he kind of suffers from the same defects as Brunson), and it is clear that he is just milking his famous name to sell reprints of old material and tales of The Wild West (actually I like his tales, but as a pokerinstructor I do not think he will contribute with anything more)

He derserves praise for the original supersystem and for being a worldclass player, but his days as a great writer seem to over.

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

yes.

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

You should be ashamed of yourself, that's all I have to say.

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

Who ... me ?? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

yep.

Re: How many here would buy a book by Hoyt Corkins?
 

isn't that movie "Brokeback Mountain" his life story?

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

Bear ... I am not taking anything away from Doyle Brunson, when it comes to having an interesting life or being one of the best pokerplayers ever

Just mentioning that he squeezing his name to make a profit on not so great books ... and actually I respect him for that, isn't that what poker is about, winning enormous pots with big bluffs ?? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

At least his book are not as bad as Phil Helmuths ... (can't stop laughing that rubbercell inmate laughter ... mhoo ho ha ha hi ho ... my God .. )


Tell me Bear, did you enjoy the chapter on online poker in Supersystem II ?? (That was a good one, a 40 pages commercial for Doylesroom.com ... which again compares easily to Helmuths endless ramblings on what a great site UB is .. hmm .. maybe they should write a book together and and get Caro to write the preface ... WE ARE ALL IN .. The Helmuth and Brunson way ... just sigh here, and you WILL be playing like the pro's TEXAS STYLE !!!)


And again just so there is no misunderstandings ... The chapters on hold'em in Supersystem I are great ... Supersystem I as a whole is a great read ... and parts of Superssystem II are also very good (Todd Brunsons bit on Stud/8 for example)

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bear ... I am not taking anything away from Doyle Brunson, when it comes to having an interesting life or being one of the best pokerplayers ever

Just mentioning that he squeezing his name to make a profit on not so great books ... and actually I respect him for that, isn't that what poker is about, winning enormous pots with big bluffs ?? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

At least his book are not as bad as Phil Helmuths ... (can't stop laughing that rubbercell inmate laughter ... mhoo ho ha ha hi ho ... my God .. )


Tell me Bear, did you enjoy the chapter on online poker in Supersystem II ?? (That was a good one, a 40 pages commercial for Doylesroom.com ... which again compares easily to Helmuths endless ramblings on what a great site UB is .. hmm .. maybe they should write a book together and and get Caro to write the preface ... WE ARE ALL IN .. The Helmuth and Brunson way ... just sigh here, and you WILL be playing like the pro's TEXAS STYLE !!!)


And again just so there is no misunderstandings ... The chapters on hold'em in Supersystem I are great ... Supersystem I as a whole is a great read ... and parts of Superssystem II are also very good (Todd Brunsons bit on Stud/8 for example)

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as I think Doyle's my favorite poker player I must agree that super/system 2 is almost identical to super/system 1, well at least the NL hold em part is anyways. Caro's part was useful to a beginner like I was when I first read that book. After reading 10 books I definiltey would not recommend super/system 2. The most disgusting fact is that I remember Doyle is quoted somewhere saying that Super/System 2 is not meant to be a newer, more extensive edition of super/system 1(and it isn't even that), but its a second volume all in itself and a continuation of super/system1, in other words, buy1, then buy 2. I do think Caro's an amazing writer in poker though.

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

Sure, he's maximizing his profits based on his popularity, who isn't. But to say that his book is no good is a damn lie. Why do I think this? Well, because that is the only book I had read for a long time on how to play NL hold em and I've won plenty of money doing it. Sure, I hit pitfalls along the way, I learned the hard way when to be aggressive and when to play differently (in the beginning I overlooked the part about how to play against weak opponents). I think he didn't change the NL section this time around because there wasn't anything to change. If you incorporate his teachings into your own style, you will be capable of playing power poker. Name me one book, just one, that is a better guide to playing NL ring games. The only other book that comes close is Pot-limit No-limit by Ciaffone and Reuben. It's a nice book. I took Mason's recommendation and read it. I learned some things from it, but I can't say it's influenced my game to the extent that Super System did.
When praising the original Super System limit section, you are aware that they no longer play the game with a single blind, right?
As far as the Mike Caro section of SSII, well, that's Caro. However, there is some useful stuff in that section as well. I'll leave it up to you what is helpful to you and what you already know. Many readers have no clue about tells or some of the other things Caro talks about. Caro has his place in developing poker players. He, like many, can be a useful resource.
I won't argue the internet section, however, that isn't what sells the book. What sells the book is the fact that it shares valuable information on how to play the game by the man that has dominated the game for many, many years.
I do not think that you could honestly say that one would be a worse NL hold em player after reading it, but I guarantee that one would be better it they are able to understand the concepts.

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bear ... I am not taking anything away from Doyle Brunson, when it comes to having an interesting life or being one of the best pokerplayers ever

Just mentioning that he squeezing his name to make a profit on not so great books ... and actually I respect him for that, isn't that what poker is about, winning enormous pots with big bluffs ?? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

At least his book are not as bad as Phil Helmuths ... (can't stop laughing that rubbercell inmate laughter ... mhoo ho ha ha hi ho ... my God .. )


Tell me Bear, did you enjoy the chapter on online poker in Supersystem II ?? (That was a good one, a 40 pages commercial for Doylesroom.com ... which again compares easily to Helmuths endless ramblings on what a great site UB is .. hmm .. maybe they should write a book together and and get Caro to write the preface ... WE ARE ALL IN .. The Helmuth and Brunson way ... just sigh here, and you WILL be playing like the pro's TEXAS STYLE !!!)


And again just so there is no misunderstandings ... The chapters on hold'em in Supersystem I are great ... Supersystem I as a whole is a great read ... and parts of Superssystem II are also very good (Todd Brunsons bit on Stud/8 for example)

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as I think Doyle's my favorite poker player I must agree that super/system 2 is almost identical to super/system 1, well at least the NL hold em part is anyways. Caro's part was useful to a beginner like I was when I first read that book. After reading 10 books I definiltey would not recommend super/system 2. The most disgusting fact is that I remember Doyle is quoted somewhere saying that Super/System 2 is not meant to be a newer, more extensive edition of super/system 1(and it isn't even that), but its a second volume all in itself and a continuation of super/system1, in other words, buy1, then buy 2. I do think Caro's an amazing writer in poker though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you want Doyle to write a new section on NL when he said in the book he thought about how much the game has changed over the years, and realized there wasn't anything to change. Also, you said that you don't need SS2 if you have the original. Tell me, where was Omaha high and Triple Draw covered in the original? Basically, the second book introduces games that are played today, and updated only what was required.

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

I realize that the topic has moved on ... so I feel obliged to reply.

I you say, that Supersystem I is out of date, filled with games no longer played, and therefore Supersystem II is simply an 2nd Edition of the original book, where the good stuff of Supersystem I is keeps (namely the NL hold'em section) and the rest of those old sections are trown out or rewritten. The point being, that you should not buy SS1 these day, but SS2, then allright ... It makes sense :-)


If you say, as I believe that you do, that one should buy both SS1 and SS2, then it makes no sense

First of all Supersystem is labeled as an advanced pokerguide, which makes you wonder what the Caro bit, the online bit and the WPT bit are doing there
Second of all, If it is expected that you own SS1, then why charge people money to read something, that they already own ... Doyle NL section should not be there .. and either the book should have been shorther and thereby cheaper or if that was not feaseble due to technical matters, then the pages should have been put to better use

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bear ... I am not taking anything away from Doyle Brunson, when it comes to having an interesting life or being one of the best pokerplayers ever

Just mentioning that he squeezing his name to make a profit on not so great books ... and actually I respect him for that, isn't that what poker is about, winning enormous pots with big bluffs ?? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

At least his book are not as bad as Phil Helmuths ... (can't stop laughing that rubbercell inmate laughter ... mhoo ho ha ha hi ho ... my God .. )


Tell me Bear, did you enjoy the chapter on online poker in Supersystem II ?? (That was a good one, a 40 pages commercial for Doylesroom.com ... which again compares easily to Helmuths endless ramblings on what a great site UB is .. hmm .. maybe they should write a book together and and get Caro to write the preface ... WE ARE ALL IN .. The Helmuth and Brunson way ... just sigh here, and you WILL be playing like the pro's TEXAS STYLE !!!)


And again just so there is no misunderstandings ... The chapters on hold'em in Supersystem I are great ... Supersystem I as a whole is a great read ... and parts of Superssystem II are also very good (Todd Brunsons bit on Stud/8 for example)

[/ QUOTE ]

As much as I think Doyle's my favorite poker player I must agree that super/system 2 is almost identical to super/system 1, well at least the NL hold em part is anyways. Caro's part was useful to a beginner like I was when I first read that book. After reading 10 books I definiltey would not recommend super/system 2. The most disgusting fact is that I remember Doyle is quoted somewhere saying that Super/System 2 is not meant to be a newer, more extensive edition of super/system 1(and it isn't even that), but its a second volume all in itself and a continuation of super/system1, in other words, buy1, then buy 2. I do think Caro's an amazing writer in poker though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you want Doyle to write a new section on NL when he said in the book he thought about how much the game has changed over the years, and realized there wasn't anything to change. Also, you said that you don't need SS2 if you have the original. Tell me, where was Omaha high and Triple Draw covered in the original? Basically, the second book introduces games that are played today, and updated only what was required.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the thing, the first book costs 30$ USD, the second book costs 35$ USD (and believe me, up here in canada they're significantly more expensive 35% or so). Doyle says one should own both books as SS2 is a continuation of SS1, this is clearly [censored]. Yes, its true that there's triple draw and omaha high now in the second book, but does that mean I have to pay 125% more on than the first book for about 15% more information? And for most people, there's about 2% more information(Caro's stuff, which can be seen at his website for free and in much greater detail) since very few players play these two games. Also, SS books offer some valuable advice but they themselves are clearly not anywhere close to a comprehensive strategy guide of anything. So if you needed advice on these two games you'd be well advised to buy whole books specialized on them.
Again, as much as Doyle's my favorite player, his second book is BY FAR the biggest waste of money ever. (for me the first cuz i bought the second one first and he said they're different in there) - and I'm one of those ppl who believe if you learn one thing from a poker book it pays for itself, this one certainly wont.

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

You seem to be a very bitter person.

Re: How many here would buy a book by Hoyt Corkins?
 

[ QUOTE ]
isn't that movie "Brokeback Mountain" his life story?

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on, this is funny.

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

its420yo.

First, you say buy a book purely dedicated to triple draw and omaha high. Now there is no book purely dedicated to triple draw, and very little info. on omaha high. Second, when you compare the price of SS2 (or any poker book) to the amount of money we actually play for at the tables it's like a drop in the ocean. Also, you say there is a lot of the book covering concepts you already know, and contains material you already own. Tell me, how many other books do you own that do the same? For example, I don't own a book that doesn't include info. on pot odds, implied odds, position etc. etc.

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

I thought SSII was really good. For whatever complaints there are for the wasted pages, the book was quite large, so even if you removed the Caro section, WPT section, the Brunson life story, and online poker section, there was still a lot of solid content. Of course Brunson is cashing in on his name. He's not a young guy anymore, he can't afford to just let opportunities pass him by. It is good to see someone who was so important to the game reap some of the rewards. Brunson is grabbing his piece of the pie while he is living, I don't blame him.

SSII is one of the only books I own that I look back at regularly, especially the Omaha Eight section. This book has easily paid for itself and all of the poker books I own.

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

First of all, quit bitching about prices in Canada. Nobody cares. Buy your books in the states. The only thing I specifically purchase in Canada is Coffee Crisp becaue we don't have that here.
In reality, almost all books are a waste of money. What it really comes down to is :what does my opponent have, what does he think I have, can I bluff him off this pot or is he going to make me show him a hand, and, if so, do I have a hand with showdown value. For example, you're at a table of weakies, three people limp in and you're on the button, you raise with 9-2o and everybody folds. Why, because they're weak and you took advantage of that. I've yet to see a book that tells you to raise with 9-2o, yet there are times when you can do it with impunity.
You have AA UTG and raise. CO thinks about it and calls. Flop comes, you bet pot, he calls quickly. Hmmm, you think, no straight of flush draws here. You bet turn, he quickly raises all-in, you fold cause you know he flopped a set. How do you know, because you have experience. You've observed him and you know that's how he plays flopped sets. No book can teach you that, you know that from playing the game and learning your opponents. Most of what I know about this game I learned through playing, not from books. However, there are some books that I like to go back to from time to time to see if there is something that I missed or a concept that I may understand better now. SSII is one such book. Why SSII, becaue I wore out my copy of SSI. I wouldn't recommend somebody who has neither purchase both, I'd recommend they buy the second one because the games are current. SSI has draw and an outdated limit section.
Canada...our neighbor to the north.

Re: Doyle Brunson
 

You all seem to miss my point, which is: you dont need to spend another 30$+ on SSII if you own an intact copy of SSI(and more so vice versa, since II is more updated), unless you're a serious collecter with like 100 books and you want it for the sentimental value.
merry christmas all