Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

Sorry guys, I promise that my 'Curtains' posts will get more interesting. But this simple hand made me ask this: Is this the difference between an 800 and a 1000 chip game? If it was level two (in an 800 chip game) and I had 850 chips with QJs in the CO, I would just muck it rather than commit ~90 chips pre-flop.

Thoughts on this? Are you giving up much if you folded here, even in a 1000 chip game?


PartyPoker, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t2208)
UTG+1 (t987)
MP1 (t720)
MP2 (t2095)
Hero (t1065)
Button (t730)
SB (t1030)
BB (t1165)



Preflop: Hero is in CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises t85</font>, Button calls t85, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>

Flop: (t215) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets t150</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

Nah, I don't play it there either.

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

QJs is a very playable hand, especially in late position. Don't be afraid to get a few chips in the middle. If you whiff the flop and get bet into or checkraised be willing to let it go if necessary.

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

[ QUOTE ]
QJs is a very playable hand, especially in late position. Don't be afraid to get a few chips in the middle. If you whiff the flop and get bet into or checkraised be willing to let it go if necessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I know it's playable, but I wouldn't commit 90 chips with it from the CO in an 800 chipper. Is this the type of adjustment that has to be made in a 1000 chip game?

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

I play as tight as the next guy early on. However, in the 800 chip SNGs I still very confident even if I'm around 600 chips. If I raise a few preflop and whiff then so be it. I love suited broadway cards and will commit chips to play them.

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
QJs is a very playable hand, especially in late position. Don't be afraid to get a few chips in the middle. If you whiff the flop and get bet into or checkraised be willing to let it go if necessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I know it's playable, but I wouldn't commit 90 chips with it from the CO in an 800 chipper. Is this the type of adjustment that has to be made in a 1000 chip game?

[/ QUOTE ]

well you obviously dont have to commit 90 chips to this hand, if im 8 tabling 22/33's im folding this hand without even thinking about it but im sure theres good arguments for raising or calling

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I play as tight as the next guy early on. However, in the 800 chip SNGs I still very confident even if I'm around 600 chips. If I raise a few preflop and whiff then so be it. I love suited broadway cards and will commit chips to play them.

[/ QUOTE ]

ha this is terrible advice

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

[ QUOTE ]
QJs is a very playable hand, especially in late position. Don't be afraid to get a few chips in the middle. If you whiff the flop and get bet into or checkraised be willing to let it go if necessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're wrong. Do you see why?

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

I'm glad you have mastered the one way to win at poker Bluff Daddy. I just hope the rest of the players on Party fold suited broadways as much as you.

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm glad you have mastered the one way to win at poker Bluff Daddy. I just hope the rest of the players on Party fold suited broadways as much as you.

[/ QUOTE ]

as I said in my other post im sure there are good arguments for anyway you want to play qj suited but I dont think saying raise a few preflop and whiff is the best advise. Dont worry there are plenty of players on party willing to call of their stacks on Q high flush draws in level 2

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

I'll raise here if those guys haven't been seeing a ton of flops, or, of course, reraising a lot.

This isn't the only reason, but part of why I do it is because I don't want people to know a raise means exactly AQ+, TT+ or something like that from me.

I would have folded in the 800 chip games for several reasons, but think the raise would still be ok if you knew the players acting after you were tight (they usually wouldn't be though).

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

I think in the typical weak-tight early stages this play is well worth the risk. I might pass it up if I have 8 tables going, but generally I would raise this.

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

I raise this in this spot 100% of the time in the games I play.

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

[ QUOTE ]

I raise this in this spot 100% of the time in the games I play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Curtains, would you still raise it in the scenario that I gave - in an 800 chip game when your stack was around 850? Currently, I do not. Then again my opponents are loose and bad.

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

I probably do, but I remember playing a bit tighter in those lower chip games...its been a while. I'd probably raise

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

If you can't play post flop poker its probably best to just muck it. If you can play post flop then you can raise it. And yes, it can be raised in an 800 chip game as well.

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

Well, it's not just the number of chips, it's the players. I don't think it's a good raise in an $11 and I think it's pretty bad in a $6.

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

Well, yeah you do have to consider who is left to act. I wouldn't play it if I thought the players were prone to coming over the top of me putting me to a decision. But against passive players I'd come in. And as for the lower buy ins I agree they will certainly call with a wide range but thats what makes it a good raise. They will call with inferior holdings and probably raise with better ones. But usually those who play at lower limits don't have the post flop experience so they would be better off folding I guess.

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

[ QUOTE ]


You're wrong. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

You should be killed for this post.

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

I think you can raise profitably in a $6, but it's one of those waiting for a better spot things I think.

To go to the extreme, I KNOW it's a fold in the play money games. Take the fact that 3 people call your allin with QQ+ and the fact that you absolutely can fold into the money and you can pass up a lot of profitable plays.

In the $109s it is frustrating how rarely people are paying off my big hands, so I can't afford to miss a few chips here and there.

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

Dunno, in the $22's and $33's I used to bring in suited broadways for a raise in LP but caught a good deal of reraises out of the blinds. Plenty of players at those levels assume a low/mid pair or ATo is a premium holding even in a raised pot, and are inclined to take a shot at you since they're putting you on a looser range near the button.

Maybe I'm just a pansy ass but I routinely open fold these hands now, or just limp behind with position. Being a positional LAG makes me a lot of cash in NL ring, but I'm not sure it's the image you want in an 800 chip tourney on Party.

Anyone want to draw a line where these raises become more effective - $50's, $100's? Player dependent of course.

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

[ QUOTE ]

I raise this in this spot 100% of the time in the games I play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

[ QUOTE ]

I raise this in this spot 100% of the time in the games I play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost any suited connectors (maybe not 54 and below) I raise this here. The steal potential plus position with callers (usually) seems too good here. 1000 would make the play a little juicier.

$.02

Re: Curtains hand 1: boring pre-flop question
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


You're wrong. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]

You should be killed for this post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sucking at poker is probably a good enough punishment.