A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

It's 6 AM and b/c I'm an insomniac, I'm playing HU 10/20 NL. The player is really really terrible. I'm being really nice to him in chat and find out he had a big tourney score. Anyway, he bad beats me horrendously and gets very apologetic about it. I didn't type anything in the chat and didn't even show my hand so he doesn't even know for sure that it's a bad beat (it is). Now, a few of the railbirds start talking about christmas spirit and what not and are cajoling him into sending me the $1200 back that he won from the bad beat. He then types "OK, 'insert SN', sent. Merry XMas". I look at my account balance a couple minutes later and he actually sent it. We continue playing and chatting it up and of course within 20 minutes or so I have cleaned him out. He lost $3,000 in all, including the $1,200 he transferred. He is out of money and can't reload because it would "overdraw" his bank account. I don't know what his financial condition is or what he does for a living.

Does anyone feel obligated to do anything?

If you do, would you bring it up and send back the $1,200 on your own, or wait for someone to suggest it, or only send it back if he asks for it?

Would you then accept a rematch? (Unless he hit and runs which is unlikely, this is a virtual guarantee I will have the money in the end)

Or just let him keep the $1,200?

Or leave without saying anything and keep the $?

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

Man, that ZeeJustin is a nice guy.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

well i think its safe to say that the person who gave u 1200 is financially stable. 1200 is obviously not that much to him. I dont know your financial situation but if you are pretty well off that 1200 isn't that significant an amount, then xfer it back.

I personally however, would keep it because i've been running bad and my bankroll needs it..

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

Weird as hell. I'd like to believe I'd send back the 1200, but you certainly aren't obligated to do so.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

I would transfer it back without needing to be asked. If he's going to reload it immediately and lose it back to you anyway (less rake), you don't lose much financially by doing so and maybe he'll seek you out next time he luckboxes his way to a tourney win. Good karma move, too.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Man, that ZeeJustin is a nice guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

this made my christmas. ty.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

send him back his equity share of the bad beat

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

I would send him the money back. I also a "good karma" nit. You are not obligated to do so, but then again, i dont think accepting it in the first place is completley kosher, we both know you wouldnt give someone back their money because you put a beat on them. I dunno, thats a weird [censored] story, but if you kept the money i dont think it's immoral.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

Send it back. You should have done so right after he transferred it in the first place.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
You should have done so right after he transferred it in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh, why?

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
send him back his equity share of the bad beat

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. nh.


I wouldn't have accepted the money in the first place. WTF. You are gambling and happen to lose a hand and now want the money back, are you [censored] serious? In this situation I would probably transfer the money back. What's $1200 to you anyway, I know, nothing. Sure it could go towards buying you another plasma but you don't really need the money and I think it was wrong to take in the first place.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

The thing is, I never asked for it back or even said one thing after the bad beat.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

whatever u do, dont take advice on this board over what you would yourself otherwise do, thats lame

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

I'd send the 1200 back then win it from him (minus rake).

-SmileyEH

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

hmm, did a fyp thinking you were sponger. now it was uncalledfor. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

Keep it. The only reason to possibly give it back is if you think you can m ake a lot more from this guy in the future because of it. If any of you want to transfer me money feel free to, Ill keep it all.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Man, that ZeeJustin is a nice guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

lmao nh

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

Id just give it back.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

i don't see how you can accept the $1200. this is a total stranger giving you a significant amount of money for no reason; if a guy on the street tried to stuff $1200 into your pocket, would you really take it? i dunno, maybe a lot of ppl would. but there is absolutely no way i'd let someone give me that much money without cause.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]

i don't see how you can accept the $1200. this is a total stranger giving you a significant amount of money for no reason; if a guy on the street tried to stuff $1200 into your pocket, would you really take it? i dunno, maybe a lot of ppl would. but there is absolutely no way i'd let someone give me that much money without cause.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll let anyone give me any ammount of money for any reason. I'm such a nice guy

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

thats a really f'ed up story man, theres no right answer to this kind of stuff, to the people who say they wouldnt accept it in the first place, thats total bs, to the people who say what is 1200 to you, tell them to wait a couple of years, and to what to send back, if your a really really nice guy send back the 1200 but dont worry about it if you decide not to (i probably wouldnt)

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

Good story. The correct thing to do is obviously whatever makes you feel better, if you would feel alot of guilt about this, you may want to send the $1200 back to avoid this. Personally, I would feel comfortable keeping the money.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

Yep ^^ what he said - if you accept a gift from someone then that does place you in some level of 'moral debt' to them - here the only way to repay that is to send him back the $1200.

After all it's Xmas - don't be a Scrooge [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The better alternative of course would have been to refuse the gift and to have cleaned him out legitimately.

Now I don't see any other ethical course, especially as the guy seems to need the $$ far more than you .

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
send him back his equity share of the bad beat

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

wtf? he sent you the money unsolicited, and hasn't asked for it back? transferring it back would be condescending. he said, "Merry Christmas." He intended it as a gift, for reasons unknown but to him. Keep it.

and get some sleep, you f--kin lunatic.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

do what a true 2+2er would do

bet it all on party BJ like hes staked you 1200

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

On your next trip to Vegas, put it on a number on the roulette wheel. If you win 35x, ship him back half.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

I keep it, $1,200 must not be much to him.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

results?

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]
would you bring it up and send back the $1,200 on your own

[/ QUOTE ]

No, just send it.

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wait for someone to suggest it

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Wtf does it matter if anyone suggests it? In the end, the only ones who care are you and him.

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only send it back if he asks for it?

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Did he wait for you to ask him?

Stop playing him HU as soon as he transferred the $$$ back. This is stupid.

Having "cleaned him out" (which should not have happened - read above), at least send him back the $1200. I'd feel dirty if that happened to me.

It's not about the money.

Kirk

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

Any professional poker player who attempts to justify the morality of living off the suffering of others probably thinks along these lines:

When money enters the casino gambling world, that is when cash is exchanged for casino chips and wagered, it becomes a entity separate from personal assets. As long as it remains in play, it is not yours or anyone else's, it is merely a subject of the game. The only forces that can act on wagered money are the rules of the game and the luck of the draw. Because of the inequity of variance and the ability to manipulate the odds with betting, these forces are not equal for everyone, but they are fair.

So when everyone buys in at the table, they are implicitly agreeing to subject their money to this system, accepting whatever consequences may come. Nothing that happens within the game, inside the gambling forum is "wrong", no matter how unfair it may seem, or how much it seems to favor one person over another. If any wrong was done, it was in putting money at risk to begin with.

I don't know how many people agree with that, but if you do, I don't think you can in good conscience accept a "refund" after a bad beat. For the same reason that I won't take blame or responsibility for outdrawing someone, I won't look for sympathy or repayment after being bad beat myself.

You could say "hey, it's $1200, whatever reason he has for giving it to me is none of my business." but I think that is a copout. Let's say it's a live game, and you are both regulars. After you accept his "gift", could you look him in the eye next time you break him with a 2-outer, knowing full well that you aren't going to reciprocate his generosity?

For the sake of consistancy, I don't think you should keep this money.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

donate the entire $1200 to the red cross or some equally worthy charity as a GIFT in his name, and find out his email address and they will send him a gift receipt/notice

then write it off on taxes :-)

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

No. Losing players actually like to keep the sharks alive. People who donk off money in poker have too much money for their own good.

If the guy won the money, then gave it back, then lost it again, I think that means he just likes playing poker.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

i win btw

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

Send it back, jeez dude.

This one is easy. It's not like he stole the $1200 from you and returned it, he won it "fair and square" (if you call bad beats fair. lol)

I'd send it to him so that at least he can continue to play poker. Send it back to him, but don't feel bad about beating him out of his money down the road, if it comes to that.

If you are playing 10/20 then I'm assuming $1200 isn't a huge deal of coin for you. Send it back but don't tell the room. Just return it.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

keep it. he's just saving himself a few hours of poker grind by transfering straight away.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

Um, you send it back immediately. like, no doubt about it.

On a related note, I saw a guy last night pull money out of his pocket in an uncapped 5/10 game and give it to a guy who beat him out of a big pot and had more money on the table than he did. It was unbelievable. They were strangers to one another too.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

[ QUOTE ]


On a related note, I saw a guy last night pull money out of his pocket in an uncapped 5/10 game and give it to a guy who beat him out of a big pot and had more money on the table than he did. It was unbelievable. They were strangers to one another too.

[/ QUOTE ]

they must be christian

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

I keep it no question. I try not to think about where the money comes from, because I know I won't like the answer. I try to remain blissfully ignorant and treat poker as a video game.

Re: A crazy holiday poker story and an ethical question (low content)
 

I don't know if you wrote this or not, but it's very well written.