5-10 live and a proper free showdown play. (I think)
 

Ten handed at Greektown. The SB is a typical 5-10 player here. Probably sees 38% of the flops and can't help but bet when checked too. And won't 3bet or even raise on the big streets without a monster. The turn caller is a pay station.


3 calls, I limp J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in CO, button folds, SB calls, BB checks.

(6 SB)
FLOP: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]


It's checked around.


(3 BB)
TURN: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]


SB bets, BB folds, fold, call, fold, I raise, SB 3bets, fold, I fold......

Re: 5-10 live and a proper free showdown play. (I think)
 

I really don't like it at all. Folding to the 3-bet is a no-brainer, but in relation to WillMagic's recent post, what hands does he have that make this FSP worthwhile? Nothing outside of a diamond draw. I think he has a pair much more often. I'd call down but if I raised the turn and wasn't 3-bet I don't see why you wouldn't bet the river.

Re: 5-10 live and a proper free showdown play. (I think)
 

raise preflop.

Re: 5-10 live and a proper free showdown play. (I think)
 

[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, whatever.

Re: 5-10 live and a proper free showdown play. (I think)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]
you are sacrificing a lot of EV by not raising this preflop in late position in a loose passive live game. A 5/10 party game limping and raising are closer to neutral EV, but in a live game like the one described in the OP raising is clearly > calling IMO.

Re: 5-10 live and a proper free showdown play. (I think)
 

And what do you think about the more interesting part, namely the turn?

I'd say its a value raise and easy fold to the 3-bet. But it should be with the intention to bet the river if noone raises, not for a free showdown.

Re: 5-10 live and a proper free showdown play. (I think)
 

since there is a caller in between SB and hero I think this a clear raise/fold to a 3-bet. The reason being is that we are likely ahead of the caller and would like to charge him the times he has a decent draw and we should find out fairly quickly if we are crushed by the sb. OTOH, if sb had bet and everybody folds to us then I favor just calling down.

Also, if I raise the turn and am not 3-bet I am betting most rivers.

Re: 5-10 live and a proper free showdown play. (I think)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]
you are sacrificing a lot of EV by not raising this preflop in late position in a loose passive live game. A 5/10 party game limping and raising are closer to neutral EV, but in a live game like the one described in the OP raising is clearly > calling IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I don't really see the significance in the fact that it's a passive game. I mean, if you flop a big draw are you ever actually taking a free card on the flop?

Re: 5-10 live and a proper free showdown play. (I think)
 

I'm raising preflop.

Raise/fold to a 3bet on turn. value bet the river.

Re: 5-10 live and a proper free showdown play. (I think)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]
you are sacrificing a lot of EV by not raising this preflop in late position in a loose passive live game. A 5/10 party game limping and raising are closer to neutral EV, but in a live game like the one described in the OP raising is clearly > calling IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I don't really see the significance in the fact that it's a passive game. I mean, if you flop a big draw are you ever actually taking a free card on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
because JTs will so often flop something (pair, gutshot, OESD, flush draw, monster, etc.) a passive game will often allow us to see the river for less than one BB by betting the flop and then checking the turn.