Honesty on this site..
 

How many of you are skeptical of the results that some people post on this site?

These are the things that I am skeptical of.

A lot of the claims that people are making about BB/hr.
What happened to that dude who said he could make $100k in 100 days? And ThrillFactor?

I also think some people even lie about the advice they give sometime. Crap like, "ya, I fold KQs out of the big blind if its raised. There's a good chance you're dominated, blah blah blah."

With the distribution of the hands I'm given at Party Poker, if I were to play the way some people on here say they do, I would never play a hand.

I think people lie about their poker skills the way they lie about their golf games. Everybody wants to be good, but only a few really are.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

I think people lie about their poker skills the way they lie about their golf games. Everybody wants to be good, but only a few really are.

I completely agree. Thats why I admit I do not play well so I do not have to lie.

Welcome aboard.

Very cutting edge post. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

[ QUOTE ]
What happened to that dude who said he could make $100k in 100 days?

[/ QUOTE ]
If this is what I remember, it was Ulysses's joke responding to similar threads about smaller sums in other time periods.
As to the [ QUOTE ]
"ya, I fold KQs out of the big blind if its raised. There's a good chance you're dominated, blah blah blah."


[/ QUOTE ] stuff, I believe it because I've seen those posters (who can flat out play poker) do it all the time.

Perhaps everyone isn't telling the truth, but I'm pretty certain that most of what gets posted here is close. Think about how many poker players there are in the world. How many of those are willing to spend the time reading, etc. to improve? This board is one resource, so participation here is an indication of a willingness to do more than pray for good cards. I think the percentage of winning and/or good players here on the board is much higher than in real life simply because of this.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

I am sckepical of the posters here. Most spend an unual amount of time of trying to make $ by bumming bonuses. I have never even considered a bonus as a ligitimate effort to make $. The worse is on the "Internet" site. Those folks simply try to make cute messages. All fluff, no substance.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

The $100k in 100 days was a real post. I believe you were thinking of my $200k in 7 days. I failed at that one.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

I believe you were thinking of my $200k in 7 days. I failed at that one.

You played under duress [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

[ QUOTE ]
What happened to that dude who said he could make $100k in 100 days?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm positive that that guy is legit. I used to watch him play NLHE on Paradise last spring/summer, and he was one of the strongest players I have ever seen.

I'm pretty skeptical about Mike's claims not to be very good, though... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Bottom line is, why should you care if someone posts inflated numbers about their results? I know the advice of many posters on this forum has greatly helped my game. Knowing exactly how many BB/hr they make down to 3 decimal places wouldn't change the quality of their advice one way or the other.

scrub

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

Lol, I was just looking at the few hands I played against ThrillFactor in my pokertracker the other day. I haven't seen him around here or on party in a long time. I don't think he got the results he was expecting.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

I believe most of what I read wrt win rates. Some of the posters I know, others I've seen play. However, of all the rates that get posted, many are unsustainable for the people posting them. The variance in these online games is HUGE and it's very easy for people to have results that are wildly different than their medium/long-term expectation. There are some really expert players here making a ton of money, but there are also some people who have had really nice hot streaks.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

Most of the site is either full of [censored] or taking small runs and posting their inflated rates. But what do I know? I'm the only losing player on 2+2.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

Most posters probably believe what they write is true, but many are mistaken.

For example: Misinterpreting a 4+BB/100 Hands over 1000 hands to mean that they have a long-term 4+BB/100 win rate.

When they write "fold KQs in the BB to a raise", they usually mean, "I wish that I hadn't called that raise with KQs, and I'm never going to do it again...".

Unlike golf where there is solid, undeniable evidence that you suck, poker offers ample opportunities for self delusion. e.g. catching a hot run of cards that even a monkey could play profitably, "they sucked out on me again", "I can only beat good players", "I hate AA because they always lose" etc.

AND, over time here you'll notice that when a player is winning, they like to read and post here a lot. When they're losing, they disappear. Thus, much of the commentary, results & advice you see here is self-selecting.

Take note of who is giving what advice, it won't be long before you realize who the real giants on this site are and seek out their posts.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

AND, over time here you'll notice that when a player is winning, they like to read and post here a lot. When they're losing, they disappear. Thus, much of the commentary, results & advice you see here is self-selecting.

I often notice this myself.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

[ QUOTE ]
AND, over time here you'll notice that when a player is winning, they like to read and post here a lot. When they're losing, they disappear. Thus, much of the commentary, results & advice you see here is self-selecting.

I often notice this myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've noticed this as well. I tend to post here a lot when I am losing. It is easy to slip in to bad habits when you are losing and posting here helps avoid that.

I try not to lie about my ability. I know that the main reason I have had success at poker is that I try to play in games where my competition is absolutely terrible (not that hard to do). I make plenty of mistakes, but fortunately my opponents make many times more.

I try to learn and improve my game every day. The more I learn, the more terrible players I see:)

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

I don't get it. You've made all of two posts on this site, and you decide to level nebulous allegations of dishonesty? If you don't think the information you obtain here is reliable, just don't visit this site.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

I agree 100% with everything you wrote. I'm lying right now.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

Sorry, I was on vacation on that one with a mission to polish off 200 beers in 200 hours. I failed, too, but not for lack of trying.

for the record
 

I've never said that I play well. any positive results I've had only come from my opponents playing horrendously.
I've also never posted or uttered a truer statement.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

[ QUOTE ]

How many of you are skeptical of the results that some people post on this site?

...

I think people lie about their poker skills the way they lie about their golf games. Everybody wants to be good, but only a few really are.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it makes you feel any better, I, while +$ for over three years, have an hourly earn slightly in excess of your average Indonesian Nike factory worker.

Also, while I have broken 90 several times, I haven't yet this year (coming up on 10 rounds now) and it's driving me fookin' crazy!* [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

* - three separate occasions already, I've needed to par the 18th to finish with 89 - I play the ball down and always putt out - and I made at least a double-bogey each time. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: for the record
 

You play good, my friend. I have always been impressed when I have played with you, and I'm not easily impressed.

Re: for the record
 

don't fool yourself. it's the signal to noise ratio. I leave a lot of bets on the table (especially against cute girls and rich guys who may become investors in later ventures I dream up), but, in the bay area, we can get away with stuff like that and still win money.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

I never lie about my golf game. I have a 17.6 handicap, but I play more like a 14. Wait, isn't that embellishing? Sort of, since your handicap in golf takes into consideration the difficulty of the golf courses you play. There are similarities to ones' handicap in poker.

If you make positive xBB per hour, but play mainly in soft games, you could very likely be a negative xBB per hour player in a higher limit game. (the goal is finding these soft games on a consistent basis)

I can play my local golf courses and shoot 84-88 all the time. But get my on Firestone, and I'll be lucky to break a hundred. But you know what? My handicap will not go up or down.

So there can be an extremely high variance to how successful you are in poker, depending upon how easy or difficult your course is.

I also never fold KQs to a raise in the BB.

Thats why I'm here.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

its an accepted fact that all the posters on this forum are a bunch of liars and braggards. no big deal as the truthful ones all are on the other topics forum.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

[ QUOTE ]
I also think some people even lie about the advice they give sometime. Crap like, "ya, I fold KQs out of the big blind if its raised. There's a good chance you're dominated, blah blah blah."

With the distribution of the hands I'm given at Party Poker, if I were to play the way some people on here say they do, I would never play a hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

Strange statement. If you're implying some people talk a super-tight game but you don't think they're capable of always playing that way, I completely disagree. Don't underestimate the power of discipline in some people.

You can have a very good player, but even that doesn't mean they necessarily have to have rock solid discipline, or super tight preflop play.
A lot of people prone to looseness assume that everyone gets bored at some times and starts lowering their starting standards. When, with some, this just isn't true. They can play that way ALL of the time. And without much of a struggle.

If you don't mean this then I really don't see what you are getting at.
[Note I'm not talking about making bad folds. Bad folds are bad, whether you are a Zen master of discipline or not.]

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

I see that too. That's why I like to post hands that I lose.

I think people go through phases as well. I play a lot of hands but 99% of them are ABC.

Bottom line is the more you post and think about your game the better you will become regardless of why you made those posts.

200 beers in 200 hours?????
 

Why set your sights so low??

Ray\'s a Liar
 

Whereas I always tell the truth.

Re: 200 beers in 200 hours?????
 

it was my unemployed period, and there aren't any cardrooms in hawaii

Underachiever
 

You need to go for at least 2 bb's/hr.....that's two big ass beers per hour....isn't that what they are talking about when they talk about BB/Hr????

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

[ QUOTE ]
but there are also some people who have had really nice hot streaks.

[/ QUOTE ]


yeah, like that [censored] fish astro, playing 21% of his hands

SHeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

[ QUOTE ]

How many of you are skeptical of the results that some people post on this site?

These are the things that I am skeptical of.

A lot of the claims that people are making about BB/hr.
What happened to that dude who said he could make $100k in 100 days? And ThrillFactor?

I also think some people even lie about the advice they give sometime. Crap like, "ya, I fold KQs out of the big blind if its raised. There's a good chance you're dominated, blah blah blah."

With the distribution of the hands I'm given at Party Poker, if I were to play the way some people on here say they do, I would never play a hand.

I think people lie about their poker skills the way they lie about their golf games. Everybody wants to be good, but only a few really are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think you should size people up here the same as you would at the poker table. Some are tight, some are loose, some are bluffers, some play the "nuts". If you can't get a feel for who has knowledge here and who doesn't, then you might have similar problems at the tables.

I have been reading here about a month. I have zero concern for who is lying and who is telling the truth. I can pick out 10 posters with a wealth of knowledge, and regardless of their BB/hour I will pay attention to what is written.

Regards.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

It's ok. Your not the only break even/losing player reading these boards that can't believe people actually make money from poker.

It's no excuse for categorizing everyone as liars.

Orange

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

I see people make money all the time. Its not unbelievable. I just think some people are full of BS. I guess you can't understand that.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

I am sometimes skeptical of the win rates I read about on these pages. it's hard for me to believe that low-limit online players make as much or more than I do. as of right now, my overall win rate is about 1.25 bb per hour, and in my best game it is just under 2 bb per hour. and for the life of me, I can't sustain a winning record online. maybe I don't try hard enough, or maybe my game depends on looking my opponent in the eye, I don't know which.

as for KQs in the bb, I would never throw it away for one raise, and I don't know of any high limit pros who would. you're already half in, fer cryin out loud.

but what really pisses me off is people like andy fox who take money out of the cardroom when they really don't need it.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

What happened to that dude who said he could make $100k in 100 days?

He is still very much here.

I also think some people even lie about the advice they give sometime. Crap like, "ya, I fold KQs out of the big blind if its raised. There's a good chance you're dominated, blah blah blah."

Just because you never fold KQs to any raise does not mean that other players here do when it is warranted. Sometimes you shold fold KQs and sometimes you should 3-bet, other times you call. Deciding the correct action to choose, given a situation, is the difference between losing and winning players.

if I were to play the way some people on here say they do, I would never play a hand.

Most losing and begining players play too many hands. This is their first fundamental mistake.

Everybody wants to be good, but only a few really are.

This is true.

Stop concerning yourself about others win rates and concern yourself with your own. Read and respond to the stategy posts in the Micro/Small Stake/Mid-High/No-limit Pot Limit forums. Work diligently on your game, read and dicuss things constantly.

Hopefully then you will not be as frustrated.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

The first step to taking advantage of this forum is listening to the advice of others and then critically evaluating it. Seems like you have taken the first step.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

I agree with everything that you say. I also know that you're the best player who posts on this board who isn't named Zee.

I had a lot of problems online for awhile and couldn't really win, either. There were a multitude of reasons, but many of them had to deal with those bets on the turn that you just "know" what to do with in real life that you just don't feel out correctly online. Also, I had a hard time focusing, which is likely doubly true for you, since you play stakes about 2X what I do. I also had a hard time controlling my emotions online, which ironically is my strongest ability in the cardroom. Finally, people just play strangley as hell on the internet. They are truly terrible, but different than any people that I have ever come across. You have to make some strange plays, indeed. All I can say is that I have only been to Bay 101 once in the past month, and I'm having one of my most profitiable months playing poker ever, playing mainly shorthanded 15-30 games (3 players usually). It's unbelievable how much money I have made since I've made some adjustments, but you should stay out of my games, Mr. Man.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

"but what really pisses me off is people like andy fox who take money out of the cardroom when they really don't need it."

never fear, ive heard he's really loosened up lately. and i recently played in a game with him where he played virtually any 4 cards. there was some high stakes snob who was too busy playing 500-1000 in timbuktu or something to show up and see for himself...

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

"How many of you are skeptical of the results that some people post on this site?

These are the things that I am skeptical of."

You know what your results are, why care what someone else says they make?

"I also think some people even lie about the advice they give sometime. Crap like, "ya, I fold KQs out of the big blind if its raised. There's a good chance you're dominated, blah blah blah."

While there is no shortage of bad advice, I doubt a lot (if any) of it is intentional. Some people don't know better, are eager beavers and try to be helpful, but are wrong anyway. As your poker game progresses you'll know what is what.

"With the distribution of the hands I'm given at Party Poker, if I were to play the way some people on here say they do, I would never play a hand."

Just incidentally, how many hands (as a percentage) do you play? And at what limits?

"I think people lie about their poker skills the way they lie about their golf games. Everybody wants to be good, but only a few really are."

Maybe. But what I'm certain about is that most people who truly are interested in learning and are diligently reading the more "poker oriented" forums such as "small-stakes", "micro-limit" can become (if not already are) +EV.

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

[ QUOTE ]
it's hard for me to believe that low-limit online players make as much or more than I do.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a whole different game. Really. I know people who can't seem to really win online at Party, and that's the easiest site to win on. And some of these guys are high limit players near your caliber.

It's all about playing a ton of hands, and value betting like mad. There is no poker to be played online... it's a completely different thing. And it's boring. But a realistic hourly rate for a 5-10 player playing 4 games at once will be about a hundred an hour. I'd be skeptical of more than that.

~D

Re: Honesty on this site..
 

Andy and I had lunch yesterday, I kept looking over my shoulder for you, we contemplated having a $250 lunch.

And yes, Andy cleaned up at the tables - again.

Jim