Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

Playing 25-50 9-handed. I call raiser with JJ. Flop QJ3 two hearts. PFR pots it. I raise $1100 with $1400 left behind. Don't sweat the small raise - opponent is a supposedly world-class pro and knows he has to go all in or fold there. He goes all in. My hand holds up against his Th9h monster draw.

General point: On a draw-heavy board you should raise big.

Everyone thinks you have to raise to make the draws pay/commit. I raise because so many cards kill my action. Both are right. I much prefer live play, usually have position, and sometimes know when my opponents hit, and so am biased towards the latter.

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

[ QUOTE ]
On a draw-heavy board you should raise big.

[/ QUOTE ]holy [censored], no way!

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

Go easy Cap'n. Spelling that out - simple as it is - is going to save a lot of 2+2ers who will lurk this thread a lot of money.

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

[ QUOTE ]
Playing 25-50 9-handed. I call raiser with JJ. Flop QJ3 two hearts. PFR pots it. I raise $1100 with $1400 left behind. Don't sweat the small raise - opponent is a supposedly world-class pro and knows he has to go all in or fold there. He goes all in. My hand holds up against his Th9h monster draw.

General point: On a draw-heavy board you should raise big.

Everyone thinks you have to raise to make the draws pay/commit. I raise because so many cards kill my action. Both are right. I much prefer live play, usually have position, and sometimes know when my opponents hit, and so am biased towards the latter.

[/ QUOTE ]

your example is totally different then the hand discussed in the diablo thread.

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

nice play sir.

but let me present the counter arguement.

i flop a set on a draw heavy board, get bet into and just call...then on the turn when it bricks off get bet into again and get a guy to call my huge raise on the turn because as he said as he's calling my all-in (with one to come) well i know you don't have a set or you would have raised the flop.

all i'm saying is that it can never be correct to play specific hands the same way all the time.
at least if you plan on playing against observant opponents with deep stacks.

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

and yet another example of a non-traditional play which maximized my win.

i'm in the BB w/99.
playing 20-40 with ~15K.

five or six limpers, SB makes it $200 straight.
i call, limpers call.

flop A-9-3 two clubs.

SB bets pot, i smoothcall, button raises to ~3K(SB has ~8K button has me covered) SB goes all-in i go all-in and button makes a bad call w/bottom set.
SB has AQ no clubs.

now you can fault both the SB and the BB but the SB put me on a flush draw because i just called w/so many players left to act and the button was an uber-aggressive player so he wanted to shut me out and get heads up w/ the button.

now if he bets i raise, and now the button re-raises he's dumping that AQ in two seconds flat. he said he just couldn't put me on a set because i didn't raise to protect my hand.

point is i took a gamble that if the turn blanked off the SB was going to make a pot-committing bet because he would put me on the flush draw.

now, let me say that a lot of the time i raise the flop w/a set...but its a real good thing to be able to vary your lines so that your opponents can't easily put you on a hand.

i don't play at all online so i don't know if this is as necessary there, but i know that when you play high limit live its crucial because you play with the same people so often, and they are paying attention.

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

[ QUOTE ]
and yet another example of a non-traditional play which maximized my win.

i'm in the BB w/99.
playing 20-40 with ~15K.

five or six limpers, SB makes it $200 straight.
i call, limpers call.

flop A-9-3 two clubs.

SB bets pot, i smoothcall, button raises to ~3K(SB has ~8K button has me covered) SB goes all-in i go all-in and button makes a bad call w/bottom set.
SB has AQ no clubs.

now you can fault both the SB and the BB but the SB put me on a flush draw because i just called w/so many players left to act and the button was an uber-aggressive player so he wanted to shut me out and get heads up w/ the button.

now if he bets i raise, and now the button re-raises he's dumping that AQ in two seconds flat. he said he just couldn't put me on a set because i didn't raise to protect my hand.

point is i took a gamble that if the turn blanked off the SB was going to make a pot-committing bet because he would put me on the flush draw.

now, let me say that a lot of the time i raise the flop w/a set...but its a real good thing to be able to vary your lines so that your opponents can't easily put you on a hand.

i don't play at all online so i don't know if this is as necessary there, but i know that when you play high limit live its crucial because you play with the same people so often, and they are paying attention.

[/ QUOTE ]

If SB put you on a flush draw, what did he put other guy on? This sounds like a situations where the guy was going broke no matter what b/c he's an idiot. 6 to the flop in a raised pot, AQ with an A usually not good for 200 bb's.

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

[ QUOTE ]
If SB put you on a flush draw, what did he put other guy on? This sounds like a situations where the guy was going broke no matter what b/c he's an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

it would help if you read the post before responding.
as i said in the post the button was a very aggressive player who will raise in that spot with a wide range of hands including a weaker ace.
which is why he wanted to get me out and get heads up w/the button.

and the SB in question is actually a very good player.

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If SB put you on a flush draw, what did he put other guy on? This sounds like a situations where the guy was going broke no matter what b/c he's an idiot.

[/ QUOTE ]

it would help if you read the post before responding.
as i said in the post the button was a very aggressive player who will raise in that spot with a wide range of hands including a weaker ace.
which is why he wanted to get me out and get heads up w/the button.

and the SB in question is actually a very good player.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think I'll just stop posting altogether to save myself from any future embarassment [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Brief thought on big hands on draw-heavy boards
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'll just stop posting altogether to save myself from any future embarassment

[/ QUOTE ]

don't do that.
but let me put this whole arguement to rest.

i am in no way arguing against playing sets fast on the flop i was just posting an alternative line to be used on occassion in order to improve one's overall game.